Merged Lockerbie bomber alive after 9 months

Discussion about whether the bombing of Pan Am 103 was carried out by the U.S./Mossad has been split to its own thread here.
Posted By: LashL
 
Alt+F4 said:
Ocelot said:
Does this count http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm253055.htm
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No as the FDA has no authority or jurisdiction in Libya.



It's not about treating Lybia differently. Only two countries have so far allowed the legal sale of Zytiga, they are Canada and the U.S. It's not about Johnson & Johnson refusing to sell to other countries, it's about those countries first having to allow that drug to be used on humans in that country.

Note that al-Mergrahi spokesperson didn't say he was taking Zytiga (Johnson & Johnson's trade name) but rather just abiraterone, the generic name. Al-Mergrahi is getting it on the black market. I hear there are many good labs in India.
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OK then it looks like you're making a claim or two here.

1) Libya had a law against the use of unregistered drugs on humans.
2) Zytigia wasn't registered.

Interesting thing was that when I looked for evidence for (1) what I found was that Lybia did have such a law on paper but that it was broken in practice.
http://www.libyanjournalofmedicine.net/index.php/ljm/article/viewArticle/5440/html_42

So to be honest if I found out that the Libya Ministry of Health had or had not registered Zytigia I wouldn't really care one way or the other. Much as I wouldn't care whether a London taxi cab carried a bale of hay and a sack of oats.

From what is said in the article above it's not even clear if such registration is indeed mandatory in Lybia.

Libyan Health Law act number 106 of 1973 and its explanatory notes of 1975 state that registration of medicines within the Libyan Ministry for Health should precede the availability of any medicine in the Libyan market. However, the act (and regulations) only offers a general statement and does not detail the technical requirements and requisites needed for sound medicines registration as recommended by the WHO
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My highlight. Maybe I read too many RFC's where the terms may, should and must are used very strictly but to me this looks like a recommendation which if may be broken without any serious repercussions.
 
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I'm not sure I entirely follow Alt+F4's argument, but s/he seems to be claiming that Megrahi's health benefits were gained not from the branded drug but from some cheap knock-off. This is quite a claim, but wasn't even accompanied by any evidence that cheap knock-off versions of the drug are actually being made.

In my opinion it's highly unlikely the Gadaffi regime would have gone for a cheap knock-off of dubious provenance, rather than simply purchasing the drug in the normal way. No evidence has been presented to demonstrate that an order from properly accredited oncology specialists in Libya should have been rejected as illegal by the suppliers.

Megrahi was highly regarded in Libya because of what he did in 1999. Although he had not been convicted of anything, and no evidence had been presented to demonstrate his culpability, in 1992 the UN simply accepted the word of the US DoJ that they had "overwhelming evidence" that he was the Lockerbie bomber. Gadaffi refused to extradite him, without any supporting evidence being produced. The UN then imposed punitive sanctions on the whole country. Horror stories abound of that time, such as heart attack patients dying in ambulances on their way to Tunisia, because drugs and medical supplies to treat them were unavailable, and they couldn't even be flown out. Some have said the sanctions caused thousands of deaths among innocent Libyan civilians.

That was the background against which Megrahi voluntarily surrendered himself for trial. He was warned by some that he would not get a fair trial, but others who had some knowledge of the evidence declared that there was no chance of a conviction. It turned out that the former group were correct, with the judges actively looking for the most tenuous and unlikely scenario that might suggest guilt, and preferring it to the far more probable interpretation that suggested innocence. They then simply filled in the (enormous) gaps with speculation and supposition.

So Megrahi was sentenced, and served over ten years. He developed a fatal illness in prison, while the system was taking seven years to allow his appeal to come to court. The appeal was given a protracted timetable, with long gaps in the proceedings, which took its estimated completion date to several months beyond Megrahi's then-estimated life expectancy.

Nobody in Libya thought he did it. He was regarded as a hero for having sacrificed his liberty in order to get the sanctions lifted. That was why he was met at the airport by a welcoming party. That was why he was promptly ushered into consultations with some top oncologists (nationality a bit unclear), and every possible treatment option explored. It doesn't seem likely to me that under those circumstances anyone would have been sourcing cheap Indian knock-off chemotherapeutic agents.

If, after all that, the "rebels" snatch him and either kill him or hand him over to the Americans, that will be the ultimate betrayal.

Rolfe.
 
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Here's a rather different take to that of Alt+F4, in today's Herald.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comme...p-their-counsel-on-megrahi-s-future-1.1119613

Iain Mann said:
It is ironic that Megrahi’s unexpected continuation of life is probably due to a new cancer drug, abiraterone, which he could not have received in Greenock prison because it is not yet licensed for use in Britain or Europe, but was available to Libya at enormous cost from an American pharmaceutical business.

How many Americans who would joyously celebrate Megrahi’s early death own shares in that company and receive dividends from its profits?
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I've certainly seen no suggestion in any of the reams of comment on this that Megrahi was being given a cheap Indian knock-off, or even that cheap Indian knock-offs are available.

This entire affair is depressing me beyond description. If Megrahi's appeal had been allowed to continue, he'd be a free man now, with the "evidence" against him exposed for the sham it always was. But he got a worse deal than the West Memphis Three on that one.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
I'm not sure I entirely follow Alt+F4's argument, but s/he seems to be claiming that Megrahi's health benefits were gained not from the branded drug but from some cheap knock-off. This is quite a claim, but wasn't even accompanied by any evidence that cheap knock-off versions of the drug are actually being made.

In my opinion it's highly unlikely the Gadaffi regime would have gone for a cheap knock-off of dubious provenance, rather than simply purchasing the drug in the normal way. No evidence has been presented to demonstrate that an order from properly accredited oncology specialists in Libya should have been rejected as illegal by the suppliers.

Megrahi was highly regarded in Libya because of what he did in 1999. Although he had not been convicted of anything, and no evidence had been presented to demonstrate his culpability, in 1992 the UN simply accepted the word of the US DoJ that they had "overwhelming evidence" that he was the Lockerbie bomber. Gadaffi refused to extradite him, without any supporting evidence being produced. The UN then imposed punitive sanctions on the whole country. Horror stories abound of that time, such as heart attack patients dying in ambulances on their way to Tunisia, because drugs and medical supplies to treat them were unavailable, and they couldn't even be flown out. Some have said the sanctions caused thousands of deaths among innocent Libyan civilians.

That was the background against which Megrahi voluntarily surrendered himself for trial. He was warned by some that he would not get a fair trial, but others who had some knowledge of the evidence declared that there was no chance of a conviction. It turned out that the former group were correct, with the judges actively looking for the most tenuous and unlikely scenario that might suggest guilt, and preferring it to the far more probable interpretation that suggested innocence. They then simply filled in the (enormous) gaps with speculation and supposition.

So Megrahi was sentenced, and served over ten years. He developed a fatal illness in prison, while the system was taking seven years to allow his appeal to come to court. The appeal was given a protracted timetable, with long gaps in the proceedings, which took its estimated completion date to several months beyond Megrahi's then-estimated life expectancy.

Nobody in Libya thought he did it. He was regarded as a hero for having sacrificed his liberty in order to get the sanctions lifted. That was why he was met at the airport by a welcoming party. That was why he was promptly ushered into consultations with some top oncologists (nationality a bit unclear), and every possible treatment option explored. It doesn't seem likely to me that under those circumstances anyone would have been sourcing cheap Indian knock-off chemotherapeutic agents.

If, after all that, the "rebels" snatch him and either kill him or hand him over to the Americans, that will be the ultimate betrayal.

Rolfe.
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Why the scare quotes around the word rebels?
 
Alt+F4 said:
Hey, if you think it's a false claim, take it up with The Telegraph, not me. It was that publication that made the claim.
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Wrong again.

Thousands of men who are covered by the NHS and have advanced prostate cancer have already received abiraterone. You should do some research on how clinical trials work.
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You should check dates before making silly claims. Do they regularly give them to prisoners from ter countries langusihing in oiur jails?
 
funk de fino said:
How long did the Vietnam village massacre guy serve and where did he serve it?
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Please, still going with that? I said very early in this thread that it was wrong that those responsible for the My Lai Massacre did not serve prison time.
 
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Alt+F4 said:
Al-Mergrahi served 8.5 years, the West Memphis Three served more than 18 years, so no.
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al-Megrahi served 10.4 years, as a matter of actual fact. (10 years, 4 months and 14 days.)

At least nobody is actively hunting the West Memphis Three to put them on trial all over again and bang them up again on death row.

Rolfe.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Please, still going with that? I said very early in this thread that it was wrong that those responsible for the My Lai Massacre did not serve prison time.
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So it would be acceptable for Vietnamese politicians to actively call for them to be killed or returned to Vietnam for prosecution there?

You didnt retract your claim about what the Telegraph said. You made a false claim. You claimed it was not approved because of the price.
 
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So, moving forward, I'm curious as to thoughts on Megrahi's whereabouts, and what should be done now, considering the rebels have now taken Tripoli. News reports are that Megrahi is now hiding out with Gadhaffi.

Hmmm. How on earth is the "oh so frail and dying" Megrahi now receiving medical treatment? Tripoli hospitals are reportedly inundated with casualties from both sides.

Lest we forget (regardless of what you believe) Megrahi is still a convicted criminal (it is what it is. Deal with it), released by Scotland under license and yes, still alive after much more than 9 months, and still required to check in w/ Scottish authorities (whom are allegely trying to figure out where he is). What happens w/ him after the dust settles - IF he is anywhere to be found then? I don't want to derail this forum. Sorry if it appears that this post does that. Not my intent. Hence, does this topic deserve a separate forum of its own? thoughts?
~B
 
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Someone on another blog has taken the trouble to check on the precise legal situation as regards long-term prisoners released on licence in Scotland.

http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.com/2011/08/send-megrahi-back-to-chokey.html

The elementary fact is this, even if an unwilling Megrahi were hauled back to Scotland, you can't just deliver him back into jail like a letter popped through the letterbox. There are process which, thankfully, are not subject to the whims and preferences of Robert Halfron or David Cameron. Whatever their demands, and the bilious burblings from across the Atlantic, it is perfectly plausible that Megrahi's more telling punishment would not be re-imprisonment, but being forced to live in Newton Mearns...
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It seems likely that Megrahi's medical treatment is in jeopardy, and he certainly didn't look at all well at the end of July. One wonders if he'd make it to Newton Mearns, if it came to that.

Rolfe.
 
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http://www.bokbluster.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/110824boklores2.jpg
 
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