Merged Lockerbie bomber alive after 9 months

There are times when the lines between "politics," "current events," and "conspiracy theories" all get a little fuzzy.
 
Cleon said:
There are times when the lines between "politics," "current events," and "conspiracy theories" all get a little fuzzy.
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Exactly. But since it's back here, I'd like to see its reference to US politics and opinions. One that comes up (the main one ATM) is suspicion that, as Beerina said, the Scots were duped. This is the prognosis mostly, something I'm not way up on. But it might be nice to address these concerns of Americans - WAS there anything improper in that.

Some noteworthy passages to consider:
Dr Simpson, a former member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons' prostate cancer working group who specialised in prostate disease research, expressed doubt that Megrahi would die within the next three months and claimed that Megrahi could live for eight months. He then went on to say that, "Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor whose status is not clear and who is not named." He added that a second specialist opinion in palliative care should have been sought before the release.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...er-Megrahi-may-live-for-many-more-months.html

Scottish Tory justice spokesman, Bill Aitken said: "In June and July, there was a consensus on prognosis of eight months. Where is that consensus now? We only have the opinion of one anonymous individual - not the range of medical experts promised.
http://www.dailyindia.com/show/330532.php
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Caustic Logic said:
Exactly. But since it's back here, I'd like to see its reference to US politics and opinions. One that comes up (the main one ATM) is suspicion that, as Beerina said, the Scots were duped. This is the prognosis mostly, something I'm not way up on. But it might be nice to address these concerns of Americans - WAS there anything improper in that.
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My mother was given one day by a Scots doctor yet she survived 3. I guess he was a charlatan or I was a dupe eh?

The docs said he was dying of cancer. He will die of cancer.

Some noteworthy passages to consider:
Dr Simpson, a former member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons' prostate cancer working group who specialised in prostate disease research, expressed doubt that Megrahi would die within the next three months and claimed that Megrahi could live for eight months. He then went on to say that, "Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor whose status is not clear and who is not named." He added that a second specialist opinion in palliative care should have been sought before the release.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...er-Megrahi-may-live-for-many-more-months.html

Scottish Tory justice spokesman, Bill Aitken said: "In June and July, there was a consensus on prognosis of eight months. Where is that consensus now? We only have the opinion of one anonymous individual - not the range of medical experts promised.
http://www.dailyindia.com/show/330532.php
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So the Tory moron uses an 8 month prognosis from SPS but then says the exact same people who said 3 months were wrong a few months later?

A spokesman for the Scottish government said the prognosis of the three doctors - Britons Mr Sikora and Jonathan Waxman and Libyan Ibrahim Sherif - was not taken into account when Mr MacAskill decided to free Megrahi last month.
He said that instead of using the three doctors' opinions they drew on expert advice from 'a number' of specialists for the clinical assessment of Megrahi's life expectancy.
'These included two consultant oncologists, two consultant urologists and a number of other specialists, including a palliative care team, who had reviewed and contributed to the clinical management of the patient.
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You want to claim that is incorrect then by all means prove it.
 
Caustic Logic said:
If you'll recall, convicted Lockerbie bomber Abdul al Megrahi was released from prison last year on "compassionate grounds." That meant he was likely to die within three months.



Please everyone, refrain from mentioning how this monster might be innocent or this will be sent to the CT forum. Just normal politics as far as this thread is concerned - convicted mass-murdering terrorist Islamist scum set free and what now? Who pays and how?
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What does Islamist have to do with it.
 
I am glad my country isn't "compassionate" enough to set free a mass murdering terrorist just because he got sick.
 
Caustic Logic said:
Exactly. But since it's back here, I'd like to see its reference to US politics and opinions. One that comes up (the main one ATM) is suspicion that, as Beerina said, the Scots were duped. This is the prognosis mostly, something I'm not way up on. But it might be nice to address these concerns of Americans - WAS there anything improper in that.

Some noteworthy passages to consider:
Dr Simpson, a former member of the British Association of Urological Surgeons' prostate cancer working group who specialised in prostate disease research, expressed doubt that Megrahi would die within the next three months and claimed that Megrahi could live for eight months. He then went on to say that, "Kenny MacAskill released him apparently on the advice of just one doctor whose status is not clear and who is not named." He added that a second specialist opinion in palliative care should have been sought before the release.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...er-Megrahi-may-live-for-many-more-months.html

Scottish Tory justice spokesman, Bill Aitken said: "In June and July, there was a consensus on prognosis of eight months. Where is that consensus now? We only have the opinion of one anonymous individual - not the range of medical experts promised.
http://www.dailyindia.com/show/330532.php
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So these guys conspired to lie to everyone because of...five months' difference? Why not just wait it out and let him go three months from his "due date?"

This makes no sense.
 
dtugg said:
Nope. I am glad that the USA will let pieces of crap that deserve to die in prison die in prison.
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You may want to re-think your statement, unless you're going to go pedant over the whole "mass murdering terrorist" goose chase. According to the actual rules for compassionate release, the crime of the offender doesn't necessarily disqualify them (though the sentence may). While folks like this person might imply that it happens too rarely, the reality is that the US does have a compassionate release program and it doesn't follow to state without a doubt that someone like Megrahi wouldn't have gotten a release.

But hey, don't let me deflate your jingoism.
 
GreNME said:
You may want to re-think your statement, unless you're going to go pedant over the whole "mass murdering terrorist" goose chase.
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How exactly is that going pedant? It's clear I was talking about mass murdering terrorists since I said mass murdering terrorists.


According to the actual rules for compassionate release, the crime of the offender doesn't necessarily disqualify them (though the sentence may). While folks like this person might imply that it happens too rarely, the reality is that the US does have a compassionate release program and it doesn't follow to state without a doubt that someone like Megrahi wouldn't have gotten a release.

But hey, don't let me deflate your jingoism.
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I am well aware the are provisions for compassionate release, and I don't really have a problem for inmates who didn't kill people. But mass murderers? Yes, I do. Thankfully, (to my knowledge) no mass murderer has ever been let out on those grounds before in the US. I think is pretty clear that there is no way that someone like Megrahi would ever be let out of prison in the US. And I am glad that it is that way.
 
dtugg said:
How exactly is that going pedant? It's clear I was talking about mass murdering terrorists since I said mass murdering terrorists.
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Yeah, and it's pretty clear you're making a statement you don't ever have to back up because there's been no comparable scenario. Ain't unfalsifiable statements grand?
 
Do you actually think that there is any chance whatsoever that it would happen in the USA? Or are you just trolling?

In case it's the former, let's lower the standard from mass murdering terrorists to mass murderer. To my knowledge no mass murderer has ever been granted compassionate release in the USA although there have been some that would have qualified in Scotland. One example is Susan AtkinsWP who recently died in prison. Can you name one mass murderer who has ever been granted a compassionate released in the USA?
 
funk de fino said:
My mother was given one day by a Scots doctor yet she survived 3. I guess he was a charlatan or I was a dupe eh?
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Obviously that's a sad and interesting-sounding and totally different situation. Condolences.

The docs said he was dying of cancer. He will die of cancer.
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I agree of course, and I know no prognosis is perfect, and I'm no expert at any of this. For that reason I haven't ruled out something other than pure medical evidence caused "three months" to be mentioned right then. In fact I consider it likely that pressure was laid, since likely's a vague word.

So the Tory moron uses an 8 month prognosis from SPS but then says the exact same people who said 3 months were wrong a few months later?
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True, reading closer he says 8mo back in June, so same thing he accepts,in late August, is 5-6 months. Not a huge difference to fudge that a bit to *perhaps* 3 months. He's quibbling over weeks.

I thought he meant 8 months from then, and it looks like it will be not much more than that. But Aitken makes a good case for just what he denies - patients often live longer than their prognosis says. Aitken was wrong too, good thing we didn't have him in charge, releasing murderers early and WHY?
 
I think I read a while back that the US has greater prison hospital provision for these sorts of scenarios. In the UK, prison hospitals just aren't set up to deal with palliative care etc because our smaller pool of prisoners doesn't warrant such facilities. So it probably is less likely that this would have happened in the US.
 
What does Islamist have to do with it.
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Okay, that was a little overboard. But I was referring to a concept I don't hold but was hoping commentors would. "Skeptic" (post #25) delivered.

I am glad my country isn't "compassionate" enough to set free a mass murdering terrorist just because he got sick.
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I can see both sides, but yeah, as an American it just seems right there be at least SOME punishment relative to crime. I'm not even opposed to death when there's hundreds of relatives of the dead all wishing for it, hell yeah.

Except sometimes they're wrong and the person's innocent. Not necessarily in this case, but when it's really for sure that a person did something that heinous, they should pay. And here, we've got a conviction by judges. I gotta admit, that's fairly impressive.

So these guys conspired to lie to everyone because of...five months' difference? Why not just wait it out and let him go three months from his "due date?"

This makes no sense.
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See above. Thanks for thinking that out, as Funk did above. I concur. political word salad.

On USA and compassionate release, Dtugg:
I am well aware the are provisions for compassionate release, and I don't really have a problem for inmates who didn't kill people. But mass murderers? Yes, I do. Thankfully, (to my knowledge) no mass murderer has ever been let out on those grounds before in the US. I think is pretty clear that there is no way that someone like Megrahi would ever be let out of prison in the US. And I am glad that it is that way.
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I'm not read up on this either, but I think you're about right. It's a lot more optional over here. In fact, it's kind of convenient that right as the Megrahi issue was causing such a stir, the release of Manson murder chick Susan Atkins came up (Sept. 3 IIRC). She was clearly about dead and no more threat to anyone, and still had maybe someone that'd like to hug her one more time. But she was flat denied, on account of cutting people up and stuff, died a few weeks later. It's all sad, but oh well.

I'm presuming she was actually guilty, as I've heard nothing to the contrary.
 
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dtugg said:
Do you actually think that there is any chance whatsoever that it would happen in the USA? Or are you just trolling?

In case it's the former, let's lower the standard from mass murdering terrorists to mass murderer. To my knowledge no mass murderer has ever been granted compassionate release in the USA although there have been some that would have qualified in Scotland. One example is Susan AtkinsWP who recently died in prison. Can you name one mass murderer who has ever been granted a compassionate released in the USA?
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Can you name one in Scotland or England who has been refused? Do we treat this guy different because he was a muslim and killed Americans?
 
Ocelot said:
Please release me, I'm sick.
How sick are you?
I murdered and entire village on innocent women and children.

Bha dum tish!
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Whoops. Now you've started something ;)

eta: Sorry, it was funk de fino who technically started this 'something'.
 
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