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Loch Ness Monster real?

sat556 said:
Is it not reasonable to try and come up with a theory though?
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A theory attempts to account for evidence. There is no evidence, therefore it is unreasonable to come up with a theory.

I'm a bit confused here. These people are saying it could be a giant eel. What's wrong with saying it might be that?
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For one thing, it has yet to be established that there is an it. Why worry about what it might be, if it's not known to be there in the first place?

Second, are there giant eels in the loch? I honestly don't know the answer, but this is the first I've heard of it. If there are no giant eels in the loch, or if giant eels enter the loch so seldom as to be virtually unknown, then aren't you attempting to explain one nonexistent beast with the presence of another essentially nonexistent beast?

Are you thinking that there's just nothing that needs explaining in the first place?
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Hmm...

Yes, I guess I am.
 
Porterboy said:
Wait a minute, let's not forget that the CFZ have a good track record of solving these kinds of mysteries. A few years ago they discovered a giant Wels catfish in Martin Mere in Lancashire; this was proven!
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In what way was it proven?
 
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Okay, I just watched this all the way through (well, it ran in the background while I surfed porn) and parts of it were hilarious. The song that plays at the end made me laugh so hard my stomach hurt. I replayed it three times and it got funnier each time. My coworkers are staring. Oh, the funny.

Still though, it could've used 80% more Jon (Ronson).
 
carcharodon said:
That merely explained away that particular picture, not the 'legend' as a whole.
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What legend??? My husband grew up alongside Windermere (locals don't say "Lake") in the 40s & 50s. When this claim first turned up on an email list a few weeks ago, I asked him about it. He's adamant that there were never any stories or legends about lake monsters. According to him, there used to be a couple of small but thriving net-fishing businesses there, catching mainly char; they never caught anything bigger or stranger than pike.
He didn't know about eels, but thought it unlikely; he did mention that it was possible for a determined (or very lost) seal to swim upriver into Windermere, which might account for any recent sightings of "monsters".
But I repeat: THERE WERE NO MONSTER LEGENDS.

EDIT: Oops, sorry. Didn't realise you meant the Loch Ness monster legends.
 
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Beady said:
For one thing, it has yet to be established that there is an it. Why worry about what it might be, if it's not known to be there in the first place?
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You're right, of course. I suppose I'm just wondering how many incidents need to be reported before we decide there is an 'it' worth looking in to? Whatever that may be?
For example, people claim mediums talk to he dead, that has been looked in to, and still is (oddly). I suppose I get the impression that you are saying that this is all rubbish from the off and don't see a need to even try.


...then aren't you attempting to explain one nonexistent beast with the presence of another essentially nonexistent beast?
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You can't back up bull**** with bull****. I couldn't agree more.
 
Beady said:
Bigfoot, Champ, Nessie... Total the tourists and locals in the area of each claimed sighting, multiply by the number of cameras, multiply again by the number of possible photos in those cameras (24 for film, say, and 1 thousand for digital), and divide by the total number of photos of the beast.
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And your mathematical equation adds up to.................................what?

I can certainly understand why you would claim cameras are irrelevent. It must be downright embarrassing!
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The reason photographs are meaningless is because they prove nothing. This forum is ample evidence of that.

And, yes.....................that fact should be embarrassing.
 
So many stated hypothesis' ... so little verifyable proof.

Do no confuse possiblity with reality.

-Fnord of Dyscordia-
 
Beady said:
A single report is enough to cause an investigation.

What I'm wondering is how many times the same old reports have to be investigated before we can stop?
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Well I don't suppose we can, can we? I can't see the point in going over old reports, but any new ones must surely warrant more investigation?
I'm just pleased it's not me doing it :D
 
Soapy Sam said:
Loch Ness is not an isolated body of water in the wilds of outer Umbongoland. It may seem far away if you are reading about it in Nevada, but it lies right beside the main road from Fort Augustus to Inverness.
Tens of thousands of people drive past it every day. Thousands fish in it, sail on it , swim in it, throw rocks in it. In this age of ubiquitous pocket digital cameras, it is probably photographed several hundred thousand times annualy.

Yet not one dropping, bone, carcass, footprint, egg, scale, tooth, bonnet or sporran has been found to suggest such a creature as nessie exists.

What most certainly do exist are otters. There are also occasional red deer swimming in the loch - frightened by dogs or traffic- and almost certainly the occasional seal. (The loch is freshwater, but connects to the sea via the Caledonian Canal and there's nothing to stop seals getting in.)

I know several anglers in the area. I never heard them mention any giant eels.
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Interestingly, another lake that is supposed to harbor a Ness-like Monster, Lake Champlain in the US, also is frequented by otters. It seems that otters sometimes swim in line, appearing at a distance somewhat like the traditional multi-humped, undulatinig lake monster in profile. This appears to be no great impediment to monster fanciers who consider the anecdotal evidence of Champ's existence and behavior to be equivalent in value to the anecdotal evidence of the behavior of creatures known to exist in abundance.
 
bruto said:
Interestingly, another lake that is supposed to harbor a Ness-like Monster, Lake Champlain in the US, also is frequented by otters.
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Same with Flathead Lake in Montana and Lake Illiamna in Alaska.

I've had an otter surface in front of me in a most unlikely place while I was fishing in the Copper River. The Copper is famous here for being a killer river. It is loaded with silt, extremely swift, huge, and anything thrown in disappears forever (the proverbial closet in which one throws skeletons).

It surfaced about 50 yards away, and immediately looked at me. I knew right away it was an otter, but I was still quite surprised. I never saw where it came from.

Then it dived, and I never saw it again.
 
Loch Ness is a long body of water , lying in a glacially eroded valley itself caused by a major geological fault. (And I do mean "major"- we're talking about a zone in many ways comparable to the San Andreas, only much, much older). Interestingly, Scots settlers in California named an area of Marin county "Inverness", because the topography reminded them of this area.

Carcharodon's photos give an excellent impression of the loch- and he is quite right that the area near Urquhart Castle is atypical of the bulk of the loch. I would still argue that there are viewpoints by the roadside and a very large number of people on foot as well as in cars by the loch, at least in Summer. Passengers in southbound vehicles (especially modern high seat coaches) do have good views of much of the loch, though it is broken up by trees.

In a south west wind- common in summer- the loch gets quite rough as one of the pictures shows. On calm days though, it looks like a sheet of glass and the wake of even a small boat can persist for 10-15 minutes after the boat itself has passed.

The rumours of subsurface tunnels leading to other lochs, or even out to sea are, so far as I'm aware, unsubstantiated and I know of no feature of the regional geology that leads me to suspect the existence of such.

It is perfectly possible for eels to reach the loch, via the river Ness and / or the Caledonian Canal, but that does not mean they do so. Do eels breed in fresh water, or only in seawater?

I've heard reports of seals in the canal and in Loch Lochy, which is further down the Great Glen to the south west. I'm not sure how reliable these are.

I do know several people who saw a number of young red deer stags swimming near the south end of the loch. Gave them quite a nasty turn, apparently, as it was a misty morning and the animals were close enough together to resemble a very large beast.

My own suspicion is that otters and deer, with a rare seal are the likely explanation.
And the press, of course.

One real sea monster in Scottish lochs, notably Loch Lomond, is the Arctic Char- a seafish trapped in fjords by isostatic uplift which has lifted Scotland above sea level since the last ice age. They have adapted well and make good eating. Anyone visiting the Öld Oak"at Balmaha should give them a try.
 
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