LMAO @ Howard Dean

[Lurker]

"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," Mr. Dean said

from here now, tell me does this:

Republicans "never made an honest living in their lives,"

accurately represent the original quote?

The correct answer is no, but I expect you to dance, subvert, deny, throw stones or otherwise avoid being honest... Now please prove me wrong and I'll apologize.

Thanks for clearing that up for us. I would have provided the full quote but I thought the exercise would be useful.

Crim, when I said paraphrse I meant the part OUTSIDE the quote marks as in Republicans. The media has changed the intensity of Dean's quote to be an absolute instead of a more general "a lot". Do you see a difference? I am not saying Dean's statement is correct, but why reword it to make it more incendiary?

Lurker

 

[jj]

Uhhhmmm..... can we agree that 'paraphrase' means to *change* the words?

paraphrase

• verb express the meaning of (something) using different words.

• noun a rewording of a passage.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/paraphrase?view=uk



Where exactly are the original words that were altered, as you allege?

So, then if you said (for example): "I do not molest rocks" and you were quoted as saying "I do ... molest rocks" you'd say that wasn't a paraphrase?

What would you call it?

Whatever you call it is the same thing somebody did to Dean in this thread.

Do you think it's honest? Straightforward? Ethical? Moral?

 

[jj]

No, YOU made the assertion that the wording inside the quotation marks had been altered, and you are tapdancing around providing the original words, demanding that others prove your assertions for you.

In other words, he questioned somebody's assertion, and asked for evidence.

Where are the original words that you claim were paraphrased?

Not his job, you're trying to maliciously shift the burden. You, none the less, advertise that you're THE skeptic out to save JREF. Shifting the burden is not a SKEPTIC behavior, we all know who does that over and over again.

 

[crimresearch]

Thanks for clearing that up for us. I would have provided the full quote but I thought the exercise would be useful.

Crim, when I said paraphrse I meant the part OUTSIDE the quote marks as in Republicans. The media has changed the intensity of Dean's quote to be an absolute instead of a more general "a lot". Do you see a difference? I am not saying Dean's statement is correct, but why reword it to make it more incendiary?

Lurker

That is SOP for the media, last I checked, and pretending that someone's words meant other than what was intended, is part of the political game as well, which is why it is useful to compare what was actually said.

Doctored pictures, faked quotes, forged memos. hype, and agit prop...all designed to whip the faithful into a frenzy...

I drew the analogy a while back of trying to to tell which one of two debating church factions were telling the truth, instead of rejecting all religious dogma, and turning to science for better answers, and was quite rightly asked where one could go for such outside, objective, and factual references in the case of political debate.

I didn't have a good succinct answer then, and I don't have one now, but I remain skeptical of politicians, political parties and the media.

And the faithful believers.

 

[Lurker]

That is SOP for the media, last I checked, and pretending that someone's words meant other than what was intended, is part of the political game as well, which is why it is useful to compare what was actually said.

Adn that was the thrust of my post on this thread. Compare to what was actually said.

I agree it is SOP but that doesn't mean I have to like it! Grrr.

Lurker

 

[bigred]

Aside from the fact that Dean was stupid enough to do his own dirty work, how is what he said any different the right-wing claims about the left? O'Reilly claims that the ACLU is a fascist organization. Hannity compares liberalism to evil. And my personal favorite, Savage calls liberalism a mental disorder.

The diff. is those guys are talk show dorks. Dean is a prominant (?) political big wig.

(although in fairness, the ACLU IS a facist organization)

 

[crimresearch]

Adn that was the thrust of my post on this thread. Compare to what was actually said.

I agree it is SOP but that doesn't mean I have to like it! Grrr.

Lurker

Good...then we are on the same side...against all those other jerks over there.

 

[Upchurch]

The diff. is those guys are talk show dorks. Dean is a prominant (?) political big wig.

I did say, "Aside from the fact that Dean was stupid enough to do his own dirty work...". Who did you think I was talking about (in part)?

(although in fairness, the ACLU IS a facist organization)

Never understood that line of reasoning.

 

[Lurker]

The diff. is those guys are talk show dorks. Dean is a prominant (?) political big wig.

(although in fairness, the ACLU IS a facist organization)

Hmm, my guess is many of the Talk Show Dorks have more listeners than Dean does. So which carries more responsibility?

ACLU=Fascist? That's kind of funny. Are you a fan of Coulter, by chance?

Lurker

 

[Lurker]

Good...then we are on the same side...against all those other jerks over there.

Either that or we are the jerks......Dohh!

Lurker

 

[crimresearch]

All viewpoints are equally valid.

 

[Moliere]

I'm all for fully-representing quotes. But I'm a little surprised that you didn't actually include the more complete quote in your response. Seems like that would have been the easiest way to clear it up, rather than just stating that it's a missquote. So here's one source for it:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-06-02-dean-republicans_x.htm

Here is the full paragraph in which the quote appears:

'Dean's comment came as he recalled conditions at crowded Ohio polling stations last fall. He wondered who could expect voters to work all day and then stand in line for eight hours to vote. "Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," he said, drawing some surprised "oohs" from his audience.'

Lurker, if this is the correct and full quote then it makes Dean look even worse because now "Republican" is in the quotation. My original comments were based upon the first article posted. It looks like USA Today had the more complete quote and yes, indeed, Dean thinks "a lot" of Republicans never made an honest living in their lives. It's almost like he was hired by republicans to keep the democrats out of office.

 

[Bentspoon]

ACLU is fascist?

I don't understand

"ACLU is fascist"

How does that figure?

Bentspoon

 

[WildCat]

Hmm, my guess is many of the Talk Show Dorks have more listeners than Dean does. So which carries more responsibility?

ACLU=Fascist? That's kind of funny. Are you a fan of Coulter, by chance?

Lurker

Not in a million years! IIRC, Rush Limbaugh only gets 15 - 20 million listeners. I guarantee you, many more people have heard Dean speak. Dean, BTW, is the elected leader of the Democratic Party! He is instrumental in setting the platform of the National Democratic Party. And you're comparing that to 3 radio talk show hosts, one of which I've never even heard of, the other 2 I've only heard long enough to change the cd in my car. You can't possibly be serious?

 

[Luke T.]

"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that, because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives," Mr. Dean said

The very first editing my Dad did to a political speech I wrote before speaking to the state senate when I was a teenager was to change "a lot" to "some." A lesson I have never forgotten, but sometimes still slip up on.

 

[Bob Klase]

"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives,"'

On the other hand, a lot of Democrats have never had any kind of job other than collecting their welfare check- so things sort of even out there.

 

[Red Siegfried]

Um, can we agree that Dean was dishonestly quoted above? Note where the quote starts and ends and then take a look at his actual words and get back to me. There is a big difference in the portion you paraphrased and what he actually said.

A shame Republicans (and you) misquote to make it more attackable.

Lurker

No, sorry. I listened to a three minute clip of him saying this today. In my opinion, there was nothing taken out of context. However, what HD says to a group during a fundraising event (I think?) may not necessarily be what he really believes. Or maybe it is.

This guy is the best friend the Republican party ever had.

 

[thaiboxerken]

So, he "insulted" the republicans. I only wish democrats would take a more pro-active role in this type of political action. After all, it's what the republicans to do win. Democrats lose elections because we are too PC.

 

[RandFan]

So, he "insulted" the republicans. I only wish democrats would take a more pro-active role in this type of political action. After all, it's what the republicans to do win. Democrats lose elections because we are too PC.

I'm going on record predicting that Dean is going to hand the Democrats more losses. I think upchurch is right. You've got to get other lowlifes to make your slurs.

 

[normdoering]

Can we agree that all generalities are false.

Even that one?