Linux

[Lolly]

Could you clarify?

Not really, it was ages ago.

There's some integration with "web-based" gadgets. I don't want any integration of my desktop with the internet and I couldn't be bothered figuring out how to get rid of it.
"New Plasma widgets have been added, including Pastebin. You can drag and drop text and images to a Pastebin website. The link is returned to your clipboard. You can then send the link to others so that they can view the files you uploaded. Other new widgets include several system monitors, a special character selector, quicklaunch, news feeds, file previews, a calendar and even a simple webbrowser. Thousands more widgets are now available on Plasma thanks to support for Google Gadgets"

 

[Axiom_Blade]

There's some integration with "web-based" gadgets. I don't want any integration of my desktop with the internet and I couldn't be bothered figuring out how to get rid of it.

Plasma widgets work like widgets in other systems. You don't have to put them on your desktop. They're completely optional. In fact, there's even a setting for an old-school, rows-of-icons desktop.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Not really, it was ages ago.

There's some integration with "web-based" gadgets. I don't want any integration of my desktop with the internet and I couldn't be bothered figuring out how to get rid of it.
"New Plasma widgets have been added, including Pastebin. You can drag and drop text and images to a Pastebin website. The link is returned to your clipboard. You can then send the link to others so that they can view the files you uploaded. Other new widgets include several system monitors, a special character selector, quicklaunch, news feeds, file previews, a calendar and even a simple webbrowser. Thousands more widgets are now available on Plasma thanks to support for Google Gadgets"

Hah, I remember when desktop widgets were all the rage. We were installing Compiz to have our desktops rotate all over the place. Good times.

But I'm still not sure what you are objecting to. Widgets that interact with the internet, or widgets that came from Google's (now defunct?) catalogue of desktop widgets? Because either way, the only thing you wouldn't be able to get rid of is that "libgdesk" or whatever that allows Google Desktop coded widgets to become plasmoids.

 

[Lolly]

Widgets that interact with the internet,

Yes and anything to do with google "built-in" (yes, it had packages associated with google).

you wouldn't be able to get rid of is that "libgdesk" or whatever that allows Google Desktop coded widgets to become plasmoids.

As I said, I couldn't be bothered figuring out what I could or couldn't do, or finding out how to do it.

Integration of any crap that you have to get rid of was a dealbreaker. I want to decide what I have or don't have. If something is integrated, it may make not the slightest bit of difference that you aren't "using" it.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

One thing that is still goofy with Linux is fonts. Or maybe I am just picky. Have my system font changed and fonts.conf with all the sub-pixel and hinting options, but it only seems to work sometimes. There is this "Infinality" bundle people are talking about, but reading up on it didn't really spark my interest as anything new, and would just be another configuration level that probably won't be universally communicated.

Also, the color of my screen is very washed out, but I can't figure out how to adjust it. There is a place in KDE to adjust gamma, but it still isn't right. Of course, then I get into an endless game of fiddling with the settings .

 

[Axiom_Blade]

As I said, I couldn't be bothered figuring out what I could or couldn't do, or finding out how to do it.

Integration of any crap that you have to get rid of was a dealbreaker. I want to decide what I have or don't have. If something is integrated, it may make not the slightest bit of difference that you aren't "using" it.

I don't know. I've been using Kubuntu for several years now, and this is the first I've heard of it. I was never bothered by any Googly weirdness, ever. According to this article, though, the version of Plasma that ships with Kubuntu doesn't have the Google Gadgets code; you have to install it yourself if you want it.

 

[Lolly]

the version of Plasma that ships with Kubuntu doesn't have the Google Gadgets code; you have to install it yourself if you want it.

That's interesting, wonder why they decided to leave it out... maybe they have a clue

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Update on LXDE front:

The LXDE and Razor-qt teams are proud to announce LXQt 0.7.0, the
first release of LXQt, the Qt Lightweight Desktop Environment. This
beta release is considered a stable continuation of the Razor desktop.

It has been almost a year since the Razor-qt project and the LXDE-Qt
project decided to merge. Since then, the LXQt desktop has been under
active development by 13 developers and dozens of contributors and
translators.

"The Linux community sees many forks but never any merges."
The merge has been praised by a lot of members of this community.
The Maui Project has joined our efforts in creating a better Qt
desktop and together we hope to focus less on our differences and more
on what we share.

The KDE Project has, in their efforts in building the modular KDE
Frameworks, opened new doors for Qt developers working with desktop
libraries. KF5 libraries may soon power some LXQt components!
In the same spirit, I would like other desktops to consider this an
open invitation to come and talk to us about how we could benefit from
each other's work.

Linky.

Works fairly well so far, for a beta. Will have to wait for more work and then some benchmarks to see how it all fits together. Here is some initial analysis on the blog about why the extra 17 MB are worth it:

Yes, the memory usage slightly increased, but the difference is really negligible. Moreover, LXQt has more features, such as a better program launcher and new power management stuff.

Apparently the gtk+ 2 version uses less memory, but we cannot use gtk+ 2 forever. It’s not a secret that gtk+ 3 is not a memory saver. So, I’d say Qt is really not that bad.

Why yet another DE? Why can’t you do something more innovative? I think the answer for this FAQ is simple.

• Nowadays everything goes mobile and touch, but we still saw unmet need for a classic desktop environment. Otherwise, Windows xp should have been killed years ago and Windows 8 should have high market share now.
• In the history of free software, we see forking everyday, but (successful) merging rarely happened. We want to prove that it actually works. People can focus on what they can share with each other, not how they are different.

The following is my personal opinion (not on behalf of other LXQt developers)
Seriously, if a 17 MB memory usage increment can buy us faster development, more active developers [Figure 1], more contributors, and a healthier upstream community, that’s definitely worth it. When I say healthier, I mean those who do not hold a “Follow our way, or go away!” attitude. This is just as important as other technical considerations when you choose a toolkit.

Linky.

 

[The Norseman]

Update on LXDE front:



Linky.

Works fairly well so far, for a beta. Will have to wait for more work and then some benchmarks to see how it all fits together. Here is some initial analysis on the blog about why the extra 17 MB are worth it:



Linky.

Well, that's exciting! I'm currently running lxde as a matter of fact, and I've found it best for my setup -- far better at just running things than the other DEs have been for me.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Well, that's exciting! I'm currently running lxde as a matter of fact, and I've found it best for my setup -- far better at just running things than the other DEs have been for me.

I sure like it. I hope this merger isn't a step in the direction of making it clunkier and layering on superfluous crap.

 

[The Norseman]

I sure like it. I hope this merger isn't a step in the direction of making it clunkier and layering on superfluous crap.

Same here! I've tried some of the even lighter DEs and they're a little too light for my taste. lxde is just about perfect.

 

[BazBear]

Same here! I've tried some of the even lighter DEs and they're a little too light for my taste. lxde is just about perfect.

I too love LXDE. The beta for LXqt is getting pretty good reviews, and it looks like they're sticking to the simple yet elegant philosophy. I'm waiting 'til it comes out of beta to try it though.

 

[The Norseman]

I too love LXDE. The beta for LXqt is getting pretty good reviews, and it looks like they're sticking to the simple yet elegant philosophy. I'm waiting 'til it comes out of beta to try it though.

I'm running LMDE so I'll be on the lookout for a .deb file which apparently isn't available yet. I don't care much for trying to compile it myself. I mean I kind of know how to do It but I don't feel comfortable enough to try it with something as important as my DE in case I fubar it.

 

[eerok]

Just curious whether you guys have tried CrunchBang, which is a light, OpenBox-based distro somewhat similar to LXDE. I always preferred Xfce to LXDE myself for aesthetic reasons, but I've used BlackBox, FluxBox, and OpenBox heavily over the years when I wanted a light WM. I think CrunchBang is an interesting option in this category.

 

[The Norseman]

Just curious whether you guys have tried CrunchBang, which is a light, OpenBox-based distro somewhat similar to LXDE. I always preferred Xfce to LXDE myself for aesthetic reasons, but I've used BlackBox, FluxBox, and OpenBox heavily over the years when I wanted a light WM. I think CrunchBang is an interesting option in this category.

I tried CrunchBang for a very brief time fairly recently and I didn't care much for it. I don't remember why, though.

What is it that you like about it?

 

[xtifr]

Installing LXDEqt would involve installing a huge amount of software (Qt) that I have no other use for or interest in. If I were an LXDE user, I'd be mighty mad about the switch. But as it is, I mainly use Xfce or FVWM or WMaker (depending on my mood), so it's no skin off my nose, and I think it's nice that KDE users now have a lighter weight alternative that shares a toolkit with their apps.

 

[eerok]

I tried CrunchBang for a very brief time fairly recently and I didn't care much for it. I don't remember why, though.

What is it that you like about it?

I think that CrunchBang is well-thought-out and complete--overall a decent, attractive implementation of OpenBox, which I've acquired a fondness for over the years. If you don't like Debian Stable, then it's not for you, but I've defected to Debian again after several years as an Arch user.

I still prefer Xfce, but CrunchBang is a nice, light option IMO.

This is all extremely subjective, of course, and there's no right or wrong answer to any distro, DE, or WM question. Or even to any platform question (I use all three main platforms, myself.)

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Installing LXDEqt would involve installing a huge amount of software (Qt) that I have no other use for or interest in. If I were an LXDE user, I'd be mighty mad about the switch. But as it is, I mainly use Xfce or FVWM or WMaker (depending on my mood), so it's no skin off my nose, and I think it's nice that KDE users now have a lighter weight alternative that shares a toolkit with their apps.

Here's your problem. Almost everything in this post is the opposite .

1. LXDE will still be around for a while.

2. LXDE tried to update to GTK3, but found it not good. In this interview pcman covers this again at 18:23.

3. GTK3 is becoming known to developers as the Gnome ToolKit, and Qt as the cross platform option.

4. Most people aren't purists anyway. There is Chakra Linux trying to be Qt pure, but even they have to have workarounds for popular GTK applications. People use programs from both toolkits. Qt applications are KDE user's applications.

5. The community behind LXDE has been kept in the loop for a long time, and pcman has been explaining for a long time:

OK, back to what most user will concern, the resource usage.
To be honest, migrating to Qt will cause mild elevation of memory usage compared to the old Gtk+ 2 version. Don’t jump to the conclusion too soon. Migrating to gtk+ 3 also causes similar increase of resource usage.
Since gtk+ 2 is no longer supported by its developer and is now being deprecated, porting to Qt is not a bad idea at the moment.
Besides, the slightly higher memory usage is still acceptable for most of the existing old machines. The real resource usage may differ a lot among different Linux distros. For example, Ubuntu-based distros running LXDE tends to use more memory than ArchLinux-based ones. So more testing and real benchmarks are needed before making a conclusion on this.

Linky.

The Gtk+ and Qt versions will coexist.
There will still be new releases for the Gtk+ version in the future.
The Qt port is only an alternative, not a replacement.
Thank you!
—
I, however, need to admit that working with Qt/C++ is much more pleasant and productive than messing with C/GObject/GTK+.
Since GTK+ 3 breaks backward compatibility a lot and it becomes more memory hungry and slower, I don’t see much advantage of GTK+ now. GTK+ 2 is lighter, but it’s no longer true for GTK+ 3. Ironically, fixing all of the broken compatibility is even harder than porting to Qt in some cases (PCManFM IMO is one of them).
So If someone is starting a whole new project and is thinking about what GUI toolkit to use, personally I might recommend Qt if you’re not targeting Gnome 3.
Update 2013-03-27:
I got some feedback about the toolkit choice above. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that gtk+ is bad and did not intend to start a toolkit flame war. If you’re going to use python, C#, or other scripting language, gtk+ is still a good choice due to its mature language bindings.
Vala is attractive initially, but after trying it in real development, you’ll see the shortcomings of this approach. Because it sometimes generates incorrect C code that still compiles, we got some really hard-to-find bugs. So we need to examine the generated C code to make sure it does things right. This takes much more time than just writing plain C code myself. Besides, the generated C code is not quite human-readable and debugging becomes a problem. Another issue that’ll hit you is the problems in the library bindings. Though there exists many vala bindings for various C library, their quality is uncertain. Finally, debugging, examing, and fixing the bindings all the time takes even more time and offsets the time saved by using Vala.
To sum up, for compiled binary programs, Qt IMHO is a good choice to consider if you don’t hate C++.

Linky.

Seriously, if a 17 MB memory usage increment can buy us faster development, more active developers [Figure 1], more contributors, and a healthier upstream community, that’s definitely worth it. When I say healthier, I mean those who do not hold a “Follow our way, or go away!” attitude. This is just as important as other technical considerations when you choose a toolkit.
Many people like to argue that Qt is not C++ since it requires a pre-processor. Did anyone tell you that Gtk+ actually uses a preprocessor, too? Check the manpage of “glib-genmarshal” please. Without this pre-processor to generate some code for you, it will be awfully difficult to add signals to your GObjects. That’s not C language, right?
It does not really matter for users what toolkit you’re using given the final result works. Let’s save some time not arguing which is better and focus on what we can do with them.

Linky.

 

[xtifr]

Most GTK2 apps will migrate to GTK3 (a large number already have). I don't like Qt. I tried programming in it, and found it a major step backwards from gtkmm (the C++ wrapper for GTK), which takes much better advantage of modern features of C++. I have no Qt apps, and no desire to install any. I didn't have any major problems migrating my own little personal applets to GTK3. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

 

[The Norseman]

I'm running LMDE so I'll be on the lookout for a .deb file which apparently isn't available yet. I don't care much for trying to compile it myself. I mean I kind of know how to do It but I don't feel comfortable enough to try it with something as important as my DE in case I fubar it.

To quote myself, I accidentally said LMDE instead of LXDE. Now I make more sense, if that's actually possible.