Lifegazer's special relativity "proof"

lifegazer said:
Fear of God does not suffice to discredit a proof for God's existence. But there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

Yet another example of your illogical statements.

If I fear God that would mean I/we believe in God. We do not believe in God so do not fear God nor Santa nor Count Dracula, The wolfman etc.


If I/we believed in God and feared"him" we would FEAR not believing or discredit "him"

Stop and think before you post.


PROVE GOD
 
lifegazer said:

So, you are not even aware of the twin-paradox? Or what of upchurch's example of the atomic clocks that slowed-down in orbit of the earth?

I am perfectly aware. However, what I'm trying to get you to understand is the full effects and reasons behind relativistic effects, they have nothing to do with the spacetime for the twin changing, and the twin experiencing everything differently. You seem to believe that the twin paradox arises from something other than basic relativistic effects. To try to wrap your mind around this, I am trying to get you to explain the barn door problem.
 
lifegazer said:

There is one in this very thread. There was one in my previous thread. But I fear you lack the sincerity and open-mindedness to see it. That's your problem. Not mine.

Really, ok, I'm in the dark here, so I ask you to explain things to me, but I never receive one. Shall we go through this thread and count them? I really want to understand, I ask basic questions, and you ignore them. I'm totally in the dark here. I am exteremely open minded, in fact, I realize the relativity may well be incorrect in some domain. I would be perfectly willing to accept evidence that shows that. Now, I'm asking for your evidence lifegazer. You tell me about all these things, like light being different velocities, and I ask you to explain them, but you never do.
 
Upchurch said:

From what I had time to scan, it sounds as if people are thinking that the observer sees his own time slowing down or his own length contracting. For each observer, their own 1 meter is always 1 meter and their 1 second is always 1 second.

thank you for putting this so few, simple, easy to understand words, this is exactly what I'm trying to explain to lifegazer.


Thus the paradox in the twin scenerio. If each twin sees the other's clock slowing down, why is the earth-bound twin the one who does the most aging?

The answer, of course, and the crux of the twin paradox, is that the traveling twin goes through a period of acceleration.

I did an analysis of this for a research project in college and it turns out that the longer the period of acceleration is, the more pronounced the age difference is. I think I still have the paper I presented in a box somewhere...

acceleration is no different than gravity. An observer observing a clock in a strong gravitational field sees it going much more slowly. An observer viewing a clock in a gravitational field weaker than their own sees the clock going faster. And since a gravitational field and acceleration are the same under general relativity, the same is true for an accelerating body.
 
lifegazer said:
Fear of God does not suffice to discredit a proof for God's existence. But there is nothing to fear but fear itself.

Who are you responding to here? How can someone fear something that they don't beleive to exist anyway? Do you fear dragons?
 
RussDill said:

acceleration is no different than gravity. An observer observing a clock in a strong gravitational field sees it going much more slowly. An observer viewing a clock in a gravitational field weaker than their own sees the clock going faster. And since a gravitational field and acceleration are the same under general relativity, the same is true for an accelerating body.
Again, to be precise, an observer in an inertial reference frame (i.e. one that isn't accelerating) would see a clock in an a gravitational field tick slower than it would if it were not in a gravitational field.

You have to be careful when you are speaking of an accelerating observer watching a clock that is accelerating differently then the observer. This is in the realm of General Relativity and the math gets a lot tougher.
 
lifegazer said:


Accelerate to great velocities and you
shall
change the qualitative value of your 1 second.

I was under the impression you knew what you were talking about. You don't.

Ah, now we see that you do not understand the tricks of relativity, you are trying to force the classic model of an absolute reference onto the relativity effects.

I shall try to explain, but I am sure you will ignore the explanation:

1. When the space twin measures time through whatever menas chosen, thier measurement will remain the same. Light will still travel the same distance in the same time.

2.When the Earth twin measures time through whatever menas chosen, thier measurement will remain the same. Light will still travel the same distance in the same time.

3. When the space twin and the earth twin meet again, it will be apparent that they have an age difference, one is younger and the other older.

Paradox:
There is no way for the twins to determine which one has had a time shift,
from the perspective of the space twin, objects outside thier frame of reference have aged more quickly. From the perspective of the earth twin, the obects in the space twin's frame of reference have aged more slowly.

The paradox rests on the fact that there is no absolute frame of reference, you Lifegazer are just saying that the frame of reference of the earth twin is an absolute one.

It is not, in Einstiens equations there is no absolute frame of reference, because the speed of light is always constant for both twins.

Intuitively, we want to say that the earth frame of reference is the absolute one, but that is geo centricism.

And by the way the quality of light will change only if you have the intersection of frames of reference, then there will be an observed frequency shift, but the speed remains constant.
 
The acceleration of a body distorts the quality of that body's spacetime - whether he/it notices the changes or not. When the space-twin comes back to earth, for example, he has aged less than his brother, proving that his acceleration has slowed his time relatively to his brothers.

I.e., the motion of a body does impact upon the quality of the spacetime which that body will experience.

Now, velocity is a parameter of distance and time. And so it is obvious that if each individual has a unique perspective of distance and time, that any velocity x m/s will be unique to that individual also.
The bozos from physics-forums didn't have the brains to realise that 'x' alone does not make a velocity absolute for all observers. The velocity-value is a combination of x and m/s... and if m & s are individualistic, then so is the velocity in itself of any and all values 'x'... or, in the case of light, 'c'.
I.e., light-velocity is not truly absolute in the sense it has been depicted (in our classrooms).

These are the essential points of my argument, and they are not difficult to comprehend.
 
Upchurch said:

Again, to be precise, an observer in an inertial reference frame (i.e. one that isn't accelerating) would see a clock in an a gravitational field tick slower than it would if it were not in a gravitational field.

You have to be careful when you are speaking of an accelerating observer watching a clock that is accelerating differently then the observer. This is in the realm of General Relativity and the math gets a lot tougher.
Are you going to comment upon my argument or not? I was hoping for a little more than a "relativity for bozos" course. Especially after all the "flaming" stick you've been giving me recently.
Is my argument credible or not? Remember, the truth is more important than egos.
 
lifegazer said:

Wtf do you think this thread is about? Do you ever listen?
pound.gif


Did I miss where you gave the facts proving God:confused:

Point it/them out to me again please.
 
lifegazer said:

Remember, the truth is more important than egos.

jaw.gif


In the 2004 Webster dictionary under the entry word Hypocrisy will be found Your name and this statement by you.
 
Pahansiri said:
pound.gif


Did I miss where you gave the facts proving God:confused:

Point it/them out to me again please.
You lack brainpower my friend. Read the thread in its entirety and you will see that Einstein's law of relativity has its source at Mind. If you're not sure I shall walk you through it. Just ask.
 
lifegazer said:

You lack brainpower my friend. Read the thread in its entirety and you will see that Einstein's law of relativity has its source at Mind. If you're not sure I shall walk you through it. Just ask.

Einstein's theory of relativity is a theory and not the creator of anything. Your English if rather poor at times, cold you word this correctly?

Einstein's law of relativity has its source at Mind.


Do you mean that his theory is the source of mind?
Do you mean that his theory’s source is his mind? I agree The source of his theory is how his mind processed the available data. The theory is not the source or the data.

I guess my brainpower can only understand proper English and sentence structure.


But being you offer walk me through your proof of god as I have yet to see it. How is relativity proof of God? Walk me through it.

Being I am a bit slow so please use proper English and sentence structure.:rub:
 
I can argue each one of those points. However, your leap, and where your proof is not a proof, is when you say that this is all because of the mind. Its not a proof, its your explaination, its as much as a proof as saying that volcanos errupt because of a god. I imagine many an ancient used volcano's to prove existence of a god. There are many other explanations for einstein's relativity, and even other explainations for lifegazer's relativity.




The acceleration of a body distorts the quality of that body's spacetime - whether he/it notices the changes or not. When the space-twin comes back to earth, for example, he has aged less than his brother, proving that his acceleration has slowed his time relatively to his brothers.

acceleration does, velocity does not. Even acceleration only warps space time in the same way that gravity does, so its nothing special. You almost have relativity, but you don't:

His experiences will seem 'normal'.

This is where it becomes lifegazer's theory of relativity. His experiences do not *seem* normal, they ARE normal.


I.e., the motion of a body does impact upon the quality of the spacetime which that body will experience.

like I have challenged you before, give me an experiment one could conduct to show their velocity. Your velocity changes nothing about the space time you "expereince".


Now, velocity is a parameter of distance and time. And so it is obvious that if each individual has a unique perspective of distance and time, that any velocity x m/s will be unique to that individual also.
The bozos from physics-forums didn't have the brains to realise that 'x' alone does not make a velocity absolute for all observers. The velocity-value is a combination of x and m/s... and if m & s are individualistic, then so is the velocity in itself of any and all values 'x'... or, in the case of light, 'c'.
I.e., light-velocity is not truly absolute in the sense it has been depicted (in our classrooms).

This, again, is where you lose sight of the theory of relativity. Lemme explain where this all started. Maxwell's equations describe the behaviour of magnetic, and electric fields. Changing magnetic fields give rise to electric fields and vice versa. You work out the Maxwells equations for these, and find that changing magnetic and electric fields can give rise to a propogating wave that travels at a velocity derived from the equations. It was soon discovered that these electro-magnetic waves are simply light, radio waves, etc.

However, there was a problem, the equations gave light a speed, but in relation to what? Many thought the ether, which was theorized to be the carrier of electomagnetic waves. Many then set out to find the differences in the speed of light from different directions to determine the earths speed and direction in this ether. No differences in the speed of light were found, which was puzzeling, because such a difference would be easy to detect.

Along came einstein and his thought experiments. He would imagine catching up to a beam of light and observing it, which would seem impossible, because then it would just be a standing wave, which cannot exist. He finally determined that the speed of light is a constant for *all* observers and derived the equations to explain the consequences of that.

You are calling einstein a bozo here. Maxwells equations show that the speed of light is always a constant. It never changes. This is the very basis for einsteins theory of relativity.

length and time and *not* individualistic. Since the speed of light is always a constant, its easy to determine length and time from it. Then, you can compare those measurements to other ways of measuring. Such as the rate of atomic decay, the stengths of fields, the number of atoms in a liter, etc. It all comes out the same.


These are the essential points of my argument, and they are not difficult to comprehend.

Yes, classical physics is not difficult to comprehend, which seems to be what you are stuck to. You apply classical physics to everyone, and then claim any differences that happen due to relativity must be due to some mind, as apposed due to the nature of the universe. Relativity is a part of our universe, not something outside of it. It is derived from Maxwell's equations, which describe the behaviour of electric and magnetic fields to a T.

This is your relativity:


If I accelerate through space, there must be a means (a reference) for knowing my own velocity at any given moment, and to know that I am actually accelerating. I'm not sure what this is (after reading your comments); but unless this is true, what price our mathematics of motion/relativity? What price 'motion'?

einstein states that there is no reference for knowing your own velocity at any given moment. *That* is einsteins relativity. General relativity also shows that there isn't even a way to know that you are accelerating, the effects of acceleration are identical to a gravitational field.
 
lifegazer said:

Wtf do you think this thread is about? Do you ever listen?

You don't have a proof, you make a giant leap of conjecture.

Your proof is to say that because reality is not experienced equally by everyone, and thus we are all seeing and feeling individual realities, which means we do not share the same reality (or for certain, the same 4d universe), so each mind embraces its own "version" of our universe.

I can argue (and have) each one of those points. However, your leap, and where your proof is not a proof, is when you say that this is all because of the mind. Its not a proof, its your explaination, its as much as a proof as saying that volcanos errupt because of a god. I imagine many an ancient used volcano's too prove existence of a god. There are many other explanations for einstein's relativity, and even other explainations for lifegazer's relativity.

Relativistic effects are a part of our universe. Without them, our universe would not be consistent and there would be a reason for the "mind". All matter/energy is subject to relativistic effects. Nothing about these effects puts us into our own universe, the effects are part of our universe.

To see a dramatic example of two seemingly divergent realities being one reality explained by special relativity, solve the barn door mystery.
 
lifegazer said:

Are you going to comment upon my argument or not? I was hoping for a little more than a "relativity for bozos" course. Especially after all the "flaming" stick you've been giving me recently.

Why don't you school us by explaining the barn door problem?


Is my argument credible or not? Remember, the truth is more important than egos.

No, I'm sorry, you don't have a credible argument. I point out all the problems with your agument, and you only respond by repeating your argument, that is not credible. The truth is more important than egos, however, I fear that your ego is too important to you.
 
lifegazer said:

You lack brainpower my friend. Read the thread in its entirety and you will see that Einstein's law of relativity has its source at Mind. If you're not sure I shall walk you through it. Just ask.

Really, why don't I ask Pahansiri to solve the barn door mystery too, he can private message me the solution. We'll see who gets the solution first.

I have read the thread in its entirety, in fact, I have responded to every element of your argument, however, I do not yet se what a mind has to do with it. Einstein's law of relativity has its source at Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism.
 
lifegazer said:

Are you going to comment upon my argument or not?
Orginally posted by Upchurch

Then, I imagine, he'll get indignent that I'm not addressing his argument but attacking him personally.
**sigh**
Orignally posted by lifegazer

I was hoping for a little more than a "relativity for bozos" course. Especially after all the "flaming" stick you've been giving me recently.
After the flaming shtick, you expected me to give you more of a benefit of the doubt about your understanding of Relativity? Your version of logic and even personal intuition continues to astound me.
Is my argument credible or not? Remember, the truth is more important than egos.
No. It is not credible, because the traveler's perception of 1 meter and 1 second does not change nor is it necessary for there to be a mind on the trip for the effect to occur. You're arguments are without credit because neither are supported by any accepted theory nor by the evidence that supports it. However, since you are making the claim, if you have new evidence that you feels supports your position, please feel free to present it.
 
Upchurch said:
No. It is not credible, because the traveler's perception of 1 meter and 1 second does not change
It doesn't matter whether the traveller's perception changes. Not noticing changes is not a proof that nothing is changing (for God's sake!) - which it is. The value of his meter and second are in qualitative flux, as proved by the twin paradox. Lorentz-transformation mathematics are there precisely to work out the relative-changes experienced by various bodies in various scenarios.
You know this. So why are you dancing around the issue? Rather, dUncing around the issue. The others have the excuse of being ignorant. But you sir, claiming to be a physicist, have no excuse.
You're arguments are without credit because neither are supported by any accepted theory nor by the evidence that supports it.
You have lost all credibility in my book. There is no established support for what I am saying because I am the first to say it. How dumb are you?
 

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