Everyone says how bad life was in Soviet Union, and when their system failed and was replaced with capitalism, everything has been assumed to be better. But are things really better now? When you read about modern day Russia you see a lot of suffering in daily lives of Russians. It doesn't appear that capitalism did much good for them. Seems like Cubans are able to live better lives than modern day Russians, when not pummeled with hurricanes.
Life in Post-Soviet Russia?
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WildCat
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Russia is a thoroughly corrupt country with crony capitalism.
Just like it was when it was Soviet.
angrysoba
Philosophile
When has life in Russia ever been good?
I mean for those who aren't in the political elite. Or even for those who are...
I mean for those who aren't in the political elite. Or even for those who are...
Humes fork
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Very good point.
By contrast, countries like Estonia, Czech Republic, Poland and Slovenia are clearly better off with capitalism.
In many Asian former communist states like Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kazakhstan, it's mostly business as usual. The political oligarchies no longer bother with paying lip service to communism.
Who exactly made this assumption?
Life for many people in the former USSR is better in terms of religious and other freedoms. However, the economic situation is much more varied that it was under the Soviet system. It is no longer possible to refer to the whole society as a monolithic entity. Life in Ukraine is quite different than life in Belorus, Russia, Armenia, or Uzbekistan.
Sorry, but you will have to be much more geographically specific.
caniswalensis
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In america, you have wild parties.
In Soviet Russia, party has you.
In Soviet Russia, party has you.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
Well, there's a lot of evidence to suggest that people are better off in Russia now that they've become democratic/capitalist....
When you compare polls done in 1991 and 2009, the percentage of people who were "satisfied with their life" rose from 7% to 35%. and a slim majority does "Approve of a shift to democracy".
There are a few contradictions (only 50% approve of the change to capitalism, even though more are "satisfied with their life"). And in general it seems to be the younger people who prefer democracy/capitalism compared to the older generations.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1396/european-opinion-two-decades-after-berlin-wall-fall-communism
When you compare polls done in 1991 and 2009, the percentage of people who were "satisfied with their life" rose from 7% to 35%. and a slim majority does "Approve of a shift to democracy".
There are a few contradictions (only 50% approve of the change to capitalism, even though more are "satisfied with their life"). And in general it seems to be the younger people who prefer democracy/capitalism compared to the older generations.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1396/european-opinion-two-decades-after-berlin-wall-fall-communism
stokes234
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Don't have the direct source on me now, but I seem to remember Naomi Klein in The Shock Doctrine saying that the transition from communism to capitalism pushed around 50 million people under the poverty line (using the same measure). Sure, it was only temporary, but that's a hell of a price to pay.
Privatising most of the oil and gas wasn't a particularly smart move either.
Privatising most of the oil and gas wasn't a particularly smart move either.
angrysoba
Philosophile
America and Soviet Union the same.
In America you can criticize government.
In Soviet Union you can criticize American government.
angrysoba
Philosophile
My impression on being to Russia was that it is still quite authoritarian with police and soldiers a ubiquitous sight on the streets of Moscow and with a lot of hassle involved when travelling around. If I remember correctly you still had to report to a city office to register your presence as a foreigner within three days of arriving.
However, although I never visited the Soviet Union people have told me that the travel restrictions etc... were vastly higher in those days.
Life for Russians themselves seem to have become freer in a similar way. I think that there are more opportunities to move around and to speak more freely without having to worry about who is watching you. Many students that I met in St Petersburg were very positive about their own futures and probably in ways that they couldn't have been had they been Leningrad students.
On the other hand there seems to be a lot of public consumption of alcohol going on with people swigging from bottles of Baltika on the street and on the subways even while pushing along baby cars. I don't know what the situation was like in Soviet Russia and whether or not lack of public consumption back then would suggest freer behaviour now or more despair.
One thing I did notice was that certain brands are obviously more common now then they used to be. Whereas more and more Russians smoke Marlboro or other Western brands there was one (joke?) pack of cigarettes called "Prima Nostalgia" which had a picture of Lenin on the front and which consisted of a loosely rolled piece of paper with a few measly strands of tobacco which easily fell out.
I realize this is anecdotal and a bit too focused on alcohol consumption and freedoms etc... and I went to Russia in 2002 so things may not be the same but I thought maybe someone could fill us in on other aspects of Soviet Russia compared to contemporary Russia to make a judgment on whether things are better or not.
My guess is that things are better but I know that some, particularly older Russians, have a fondness (or prima nostalgia) for the time when their country was a mighty superpower and when pensions etc... were good and things seemed like going on the same forever. Even a pretty grim certainty is more appealing to many than a frightening/exciting uncertainty.
However, although I never visited the Soviet Union people have told me that the travel restrictions etc... were vastly higher in those days.
Life for Russians themselves seem to have become freer in a similar way. I think that there are more opportunities to move around and to speak more freely without having to worry about who is watching you. Many students that I met in St Petersburg were very positive about their own futures and probably in ways that they couldn't have been had they been Leningrad students.
On the other hand there seems to be a lot of public consumption of alcohol going on with people swigging from bottles of Baltika on the street and on the subways even while pushing along baby cars. I don't know what the situation was like in Soviet Russia and whether or not lack of public consumption back then would suggest freer behaviour now or more despair.
One thing I did notice was that certain brands are obviously more common now then they used to be. Whereas more and more Russians smoke Marlboro or other Western brands there was one (joke?) pack of cigarettes called "Prima Nostalgia" which had a picture of Lenin on the front and which consisted of a loosely rolled piece of paper with a few measly strands of tobacco which easily fell out.
I realize this is anecdotal and a bit too focused on alcohol consumption and freedoms etc... and I went to Russia in 2002 so things may not be the same but I thought maybe someone could fill us in on other aspects of Soviet Russia compared to contemporary Russia to make a judgment on whether things are better or not.
My guess is that things are better but I know that some, particularly older Russians, have a fondness (or prima nostalgia) for the time when their country was a mighty superpower and when pensions etc... were good and things seemed like going on the same forever. Even a pretty grim certainty is more appealing to many than a frightening/exciting uncertainty.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Some of Russia's transition was botched to be sure and many people did lose out. I think Klein might be talking here, again, of pensions etc... which I think became worse or at least far more uncertain.
However, we are talking about quite an astonishing revolutionary change the type of which usually results in rather massive bloodshed. The fact that this did not happen in Russia is a good thing, I think.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I'm not surprised. Although who on Earth is churning out propaganda that says Russia has/had a capitalist paradise?
Gazpacho
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Nobody's doing it now, but it was the order of the day during the Clinton administration.I'm not surprised. Although who on Earth is churning out propaganda that says Russia has/had a capitalist paradise?
WildCat
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Got evidence? I don't recall Russia ever being hailed as a "capitalist paradise".
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
The state is still the majority owner in both Rosneft and Gazprom, which are by far the biggest players in Russian oil & gas business.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Optimism at the fall of the Iron Curtain was eminently excusable. My memories of that time were that most of Eastern Europe was overjoyed to be out from under the Soviet boot and there was hope that Russia would follow the likes of East Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania - as well as the previously mentioned Baltic States.
The fact that Russia hasn't emerged in the same way is hardly a cause for snickering at the "capitalist paradise" which seems to me an orphan meme*.
*orphan meme: as far as I am aware this is a word I just made up for a belief that is bandied about a lot but has no known parents. Or in other words a strawman that clever clever people like to intellectually beat up to impress the ladies even though strawmen have no opinions and are therefore not impressive opponents.
Gazpacho
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Keeping in mind that you put the phrase in quotes and not me, have a look at some of these reports on bold adventures in the Russian economy.
angrysoba
Philosophile
I don't get your point, I am afraid. Whether someone else put the words "capitalist paradise" in quotes or not is irrelevant given that it was you who claimed Clinton-era propaganda had it that Russia was a capitalist paradise.
Yet the very articles you dredge up suggest that it wasn't really reported as a capitalist paradise at all and that rather this was your own hyperbole (or, if I wasn't so polite, propaganda).
I don't know why it should be so surprising that some businessmen and entrepreneurs thought Russia might be a good market. And I also don't know why it should be seen as such a dirty thing or a sneer-worthy thing that businessmen thought Russia might be a good market.
When I look at that Google News compilation I see a few remarks by Clinton about how he would like to see Russia emerge as a capitalist, liberal democracy (I have no problem with such aspirations) and a few about certain US firms who tried to open businesses over there (I have no problem with that and have no idea how successful they were) and a few about the war in Chechnya which kind of dampens the ole capitalist-paradise-propaganda meme a bit.
Now seriously, could someone give us some proper figures on the change that has taken place in Russia from Soviet times to Yeltsin-Putin-Medvedev times?
Russia is a fascinating country and would be worth discussing properly. (Alright already, I haven't been particularly illuminating myself. I know, I know, I know.)