Merged Libyan civil war ending - politics post-Gaddafi

[Caustic Logic]

Who counted them?

Fair question. I presume the government did. I've heard it cited around, nothing more specific from anyone. It's surely not a rounding down, but I haven't heard anyone contend it, except to wonder if it's accurate.

 

[DC]

I hear they were working on it. They actually have democracy, more direct than ours and with higher participation. They just vote for local things mostly, not the leaders. But that was possibly part of the reforms they were drafting for introduction later in 2011. I don't really know the details. The civil war and NATO air war has delayed this, I hear. One should hope they kept working on it, and announced accelerated plans. Maybe they did and we didn't hear about it? Maybe in passing as a sick joke, too little too late? I didn't notice if so .




Not a coup, or a civil war, the rebels insist on saying. It's the people rising up, a mood thing, ans weapons and cities just falling in their hands. Coup suggests plotting in advance.


Again, that's (roughly) how many stood together in and around green square, not the full tally of all Libyans who support the government fully, which is surely much higher, and higher yet if we include the fence-sitters, conflicted people, and silenced loyalists in Benghazi and so on. Please pay attention.

My educated guess is all told 66-75% nationwide and 75-90% in the West oppose the West's plans for Libya. They might want to ditch Gaddafi, but on their own terms, and with this little kick in the pants as a reminder it should happen soon.



A bloodless and widely supported coup while the corrupt king was on vacation?

aah i see ghadaffis fault, he was not quick enough giving power back to the people. shitt happens, now its too late and others might finish that job.

ghadaffi called for a holy war against my country, now i laugh off my ass for others have kicked his sorry ass.

HA HA

 

[timhau]

Again, that's (roughly) how many stood together in and around green square, not the full tally of all Libyans who support the government fully, which is surely much higher, and higher yet if we include the fence-sitters, conflicted people, and silenced loyalists in Benghazi and so on. Please pay attention.

My educated guess is all told 66-75% nationwide and 75-90% in the West oppose the West's plans for Libya.

These are based on... what, exactly?

My non-educated guess is that the part of the Libyan populace that is not actively fighting is just waiting for a local winner to emerge, so they can join a winning cause. That is generally a good survival strategy. Saddam, too, was good in getting the masses to demonstrate for him while he still had a grab on power, but when the Americans got to Baghdad, the general populace was ready to spit on him. If you've grown up in a police state, you're likely to view joining a pro-goverment rally not so much a show of full support for the leadership, but an insurance policy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Regret to break lurk to opine as follows:

Civil War in Libya is just beginning, with the Mad Colonel gone.

Hope to be wrong.

See you, all, in September.

 

[Pardalis]

Regret to break lurk to opine as follows:

Civil War in Libya is just beginning, with the Mad Colonel gone.

Hope to be wrong.

See you, all, in September.

Yes, but this will pass in time, it might take a few years, but stability will return to Libya, and like Iraq now they have a chance for a future.

 

[Toke]

Yes, but this will pass in time, it might take a few years, but stability will return to Libya, and like Iraq now they have a chance for a future.

You sound a bit flippant about those years and what could happen to people.
Lebanon took more than a few years, and I have read of up to 25% of Iraqis dead or displaced.

 

[Virus]

A representative from the Libyan oil firm Agoco said: "We don't have a problem with western countries like the Italians, French and UK companies. But we may have some political issues with Russia, China and Brazil."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/23/china-assets-post-gaddafi-libya?intcmp=239

That's because Russia, China and Brazil were against removing that thug from power. The West would be remembered bitterly if the whiny, "none of our business" isolationist left got their way. They would remember that we turned our back on them and hate us for it.

 

[twinstead]

That's because Russia, China and Brazil were against removing that thug from power. The West would be remembered bitterly if the whiny, "none of our business" isolationist left got their way. They would remember that we turned our back on them and hate us for it.

If history is any guide, there's a good chance they are going to hate us anyway.

 

[McHrozni]

If history is any guide, there's a good chance they are going to hate us anyway.

This is, unfortunately, true. But there is a chance these guys are different.

What I worries me the most (by far) is the influence the islamists yield in the rebel movement. They used mosques to rally their forces in Tripoli, for example, and eastern Libya in general was a breeding ground for islamic fanatism for years.

McHrozni

 

[Toke]

Rallying at the mosques may not mean that much, they could simply be natural meeting places for people used to attend once a week.

 

[McHrozni]

Rallying at the mosques may not mean that much, they could simply be natural meeting places for people used to attend once a week.

They also used the system that is used to call for prayers to coordinate the assault to some degree, as well as call on Quackdaffis' forces to surrender. If nothing else, the islamists were active on the winning side - unlike in Egypt, where they just stood by and watched the revolution happen. That is not a good sign. It could be nothing much will come of it, I certainly hope that will be the case, but it's still a bad sign.

McHrozni

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Libyan politics post-Gaddafi

On the 3rd August the NTC passed the Libyan interim Constitutional Declaration. You can read it here.

It looks like an intensely liberal document. I recognise we speculate from our armchairs in the West, but what are the opinions of forum members on the ability for this document to be introduced?

 

[ladmo]

On the 3rd August the NTC passed the Libyan interim Constitutional Declaration. You can read it here.

It looks like an intensely liberal document. I recognise we speculate from our armchairs in the West, but what are the opinions of forum members on the ability for this document to be introduced?

That document is one of the silliest things ever written for a Bedouin society. It is guaranteed that it is not written by a Bedouin.

 

[Johny2x4]

What do you guys think of this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bgscOtHDrI

 

[Fishstick]

That document is one of the silliest things ever written for a Bedouin society. It is guaranteed that it is not written by a Bedouin.

CAn you elaborate why that is?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

That document is one of the silliest things ever written for a Bedouin society. It is guaranteed that it is not written by a Bedouin.

I don't understand this post.

 

[Darat]

I liked article 21.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Libya

Third Arab country now cleasned of dictatorship. We need to support their morphing into a democracy. And we need to do so now!

It costs very little now, and if we don't, it will cost a whole lot latter.

 

[Rolfe]

Libya is a rich country. At the moment the country's foreign assets are frozen, and the western powers are making some quite high-handed demands of the new government in exchange for unfreezing these assets.

What did you have in mind exactly?

And did we really need yet another Libya thread? Especially one which seems quite oblivious to the complications and complexities of what is going on in that country?

Rolfe.

 

[DanishDynamite]

Libya is a rich country. At the moment the country's foreign assets are frozen, and the western powers are making some quite high-handed demands of the new government in exchange for unfreezing these assets.

What did you have in mind exactly?

And did we really need yet another Libya thread? Especially one which seems quite oblivious to the complications and complexities of what is going on in that country?

Rolfe.

Sorry if you feel my Libya thread offends. That was not the intention.

What I had in mind by starting this thread was to call attention to the incredible opportunity presenting itself with the Arab Spring, particularly regarding the Libyan Spring.

The majority currently love NATO. They are also currently in a mess. A happy mess as they have sent Ghaddafi fleeing. But still in a mess.

My point was simply that Western countries need to move their asses to help get Libya back on foot. Now.