Library Interent Filters

Admittedly, I used the wrong term, "wary". But, when I initially read and then re-read, it sounded like you weren't entirely ready to embrace the coming digital age...

By all means straighten me out. When I am wrong, I LIKE to be told so, that I might correct myself for the future.

Well, in 1982 it all sounded so weird. At the time, my thought was "And what are you smoking?" That's what I was indicating. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. Actually it was all very exciting and a little daunting, since people who spoke to us about it were saying things like "In three years, libraries will no longer exist." Time has proven them wrong.

*snip*

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ETA II:

Doesn't this case decision that we have a first amendment right to access "unfiltered" media:

Mainstream Loudoun, et al. v. Board of Trustees of the Loudoun County Library, 24 F.Supp.2d 552 (E.D. of Va. 1998)
Adopted in 1997, the Loudoun County, Va., Library Board's "Policy on Internet Sexual Harassment" was designed to prevent adult and minor Internet users from accessing illegal pornography and to avoid the creation of a sexually hostile environment. To accomplish these goals, the board contracted with Log-On Data Corporation, a filtering software manufacturer that offers a product called "X-Stop." Though Log-On Data Corp. refused to divulge the method by which X-Stop filters sites, it soon became apparent that the software blocks some sites that are not prohibited by the policy. Shortly after the adoption of the policy, People for the American Way Foundation commenced litigation on behalf of several Loudoun County residents and members of a nonprofit organization, claiming the policy violates the right to free speech under the First Amendment. The suit was predicated on the theory that the policy is unnecessarily restrictive, because it treats adults and children similarly, and precludes access to legitimate as well as pornographic material. On November 23, 1998, Judge Leonie Brinkema declared that the highly restrictive Loudoun County Internet policy was invalid under the free speech provisions of the First Amendment.

If a "highly restrictive Loudoun County Internet policy was invalid under the free speech provisions", then banning the internet altogether would have to be a violation...?

We follow federal guidelines. It sounds like Loudon County went well beyond these, so it doesn't really apply to what most libraries do. Again, if we do not filter according to CIPA, we do not get federal money.
 
Well, in 1982 it all sounded so weird. At the time, my thought was "And what are you smoking?" That's what I was indicating. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. Actually it was all very exciting and a little daunting, since people who spoke to us about it were saying things like "In three years, libraries will no longer exist." Time has proven them wrong.

Indeed, but I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that 'parts' of your collection have disappeared, thanks to the Internet...? We stopped carrying national newspapers for example, because we could access them online.

So how DO you find the Internet, as a research tool? Would eliminating it 'close off' access to media, for the poor?

There IS a new device out, that allows you to view a book, on a digital pad, offering the notion of "e-books". I could foresee libraries buying book subscriptions, rather than just the books, allowing for the library to hold multiple copies without over-running the shelves.
 
Disappeared? Except for the stolen books, not really. Yes, we have adjusted our collection to allow for the Internet and the electronic databases, but we haven't deliberately gotten rid of the collection.

ETA: And yes! you can download books from our Web site. It's great!
 
Interlibrary loans DO take time, but is still an example of how just about anything can be acquired, with patients.

As a test try ordering a DVD of "Within these Gates" (Oscar Micheaux, 192X, B&W). (Essential for a decent course in black filmaking history). {It was the first response to "Birth of a Nation" - though Lincoln had planned to do one.}

I own two.
 
Disappeared? Except for the stolen books, not really. Yes, we have adjusted our collection to allow for the Internet and the electronic databases, but we haven't deliberately gotten rid of the collection.

"...adjusted..." How so?

ETA: And yes! you can download books from our Web site. It's great!

Are these downloaded books encrypted, so that the files can't be reproduced? When I first heard about such devices, it was cautioned that book publishers weren't 'all' on board fearing the same illegal downloads the music industry suffered.
 
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As a test try ordering a DVD of "Within these Gates" (Oscar Micheaux, 192X, B&W). (Essential for a decent course in black filmaking history). {It was the first response to "Birth of a Nation" - though Lincoln had planned to do one.}

I own two.

Never seen it.

Presently, I am boycotting my local library services...
 
"...adjusted..." How so?

One example would be the MLA Bibliography. The paper version, which we subscribed to for decades, was fiendishly difficult to use. However, the online version is quite easy. Result? Subscribe online and cancel the paper.


Are these downloaded books encrypted, so that the files can't be reproduced? When I first heard about such devices, it was cautioned that book publishers weren't 'all' on board fearing the same illegal downloads the music industry suffered.

I really don't know. I'm not involved with that side of things. Next time I see the people who are, I'll ask.


Never seen it.

Presently, I am boycotting my local library services...

Sorry to hear that.
 
One example would be the MLA Bibliography. The paper version, which we subscribed to for decades, was fiendishly difficult to use. However, the online version is quite easy. Result? Subscribe online and cancel the paper.

How many newspapers do you guys subscribe to 'digitally'?

Sorry to hear that.

I don't feel welcome there.

The last time I tried to use a library it was the Cooke County Library in Gainesville Texas. There I was denied a movie loan. I have been a card holder 'in good standing' since I was 6, but because I had not been to the library in the last 6 months my loan record was not 'up to date'. I was told that I'd need to check out 'books' for a period of 30 days, to re-establish a borrowing record...

At this I asked to see the policy manual. No such policy there, the Director literally made it up, and hung a sign on the wall, declaring it a new 'rule'. The County Commissioners' Court sets Library Official Policy Manual, and according to it, I WAS authorized to check out whatever item I desired. However, at the hearing they found that she DID act within her duties, so long as she applied the rule evenly. THEN they changed the policy to include this new rule... :0

Really? If she acted within her duties, then there BE no reason to amend the Policy!

I hate corrupt ineffective government.
 
Who are you asking? The nice lady who just politely informed you that she won't be responding?

I don't know how to "bait" anything other than a hook.

LibraryLady has ran from this thread once before. Sadly, with her experience she'd have been in the perfect position to validate or dismiss my concerns, but has remained silent. Before she left last time, she sided against me because I was rude or impolite.

I've really no idea how asking a "librarian" how many digital subscriptions they have is baiting...

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My difficulty accessing materials was not an invitation to a new discussion. I was merely stating my reasons for boycotting my local libraries.
 
My Conclusion:

I believe if Public Libraries 'stopped' offering access to digital media, including the Internet, this would eventually lead to society splitting into two groups- those who can afford their own digital media purchases knowledgeable and truly aware of current events, and the rest of us.

I have only recently gone 'on-line' in my home, and I can't tell you how HUGE of a difference it's made, in my ability to be informed almost instantly. This WAS once a rare treat, as I scampered from one library to another, just to keep up with my e-mails. If Public Libraries stopped providing this access, I certainly could NOT afford the drive to the not-so nearby metroplex, that offers banks of online terminals for a few dollars an hour. I can now afford my in-home services, only because I convinced my roommate to share the expenses.

My activity 'here' was directly related to library hours. This forum is an example of the 21st century 'community', the virtual town square in any style you want to review. The Internet allows you to ask any question, of almost anyone, anywhere- instantly. Newspapers, while daily, aren't the same culture that digital media is today. Pictures might be worth a thousand words, but videos are 'streaming pictures'...

To end free public access to these resources, would be tossing the poor under the covered wagon.

Libraries would only be improved by moving toward the digital age, not further away from it. We should move forward 'together' as a society, no one should left out or behind.

L.L., it is up to you to disagree or not. No 'response' necessary.
 
I don't know how to "bait" anything other than a hook.

LibraryLady has ran from this thread once before. Sadly, with her experience she'd have been in the perfect position to validate or dismiss my concerns, but has remained silent. Before she left last time, she sided against me because I was rude or impolite.

No, she sided against you because she disagreed with you. That was before you started getting angry with her, apparently because she disagreed with you.

I've really no idea how asking a "librarian" how many digital subscriptions they have is baiting...
Based on your recent posts on this topic, it looks to me as if you are trying to draw her into an angry argument. That is called "baiting". She does not wish to be drawn into that kind of argument, so she declines to reply. Not all people enjoy that kind of debate. It is that simple.
 
No, she sided against you because she disagreed with you. That was before you started getting angry with her, apparently because she disagreed with you.


Based on your recent posts on this topic, it looks to me as if you are trying to draw her into an angry argument. That is called "baiting". She does not wish to be drawn into that kind of argument, so she declines to reply. Not all people enjoy that kind of debate. It is that simple.

Would you be kind enough to point out this "angry", so that I can avoid doing so in the future?

I resurrected this thread to "apologize" for my earlier rudeness, 'I' wasn't trying to goad anyone into a yell match.

Personally I thought "baiting", after some contemplation, was attempting get someone to answer a question differently than they had before. I recall L.L. saying that IF the Internet had to be removed that people would get the information the way they did before the Internet-by the numerous newspapers they subscribe to. IF the Internet, or rather an electronic database was being used instead of the actual paper, then she' and Seg. would be wrong.

My stance was that the Internet had taken the place of several, at one time mainstays, in the library. Like the Readers Guild to Periodical Literature or the MLA Bibliography as L.L. noted. I didn't think asking if any newspapers had been digitized was "impolite"...

I really DO want to understand how I was offensive, please?
 
King of the Americas, I have a question for you.

Is it or is it not illegal in your state/country for a minor to view pornography in the first place?

We can argue about this until we run out of breath, but the crux of the matter is that the child was engaging in illegal activity on public property. You can argue about whether it should be illegal for a minor to view pornography, but it wouldn't make much of a difference, since the child was engaging in illegal activity - also, arguably, you aided and abetted by having full knowledge of what was going on and essentially allowing it to continue. You also showed that you were willing to allow other individuals to commit the same crime on public property. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the library board wasn't too pleased.
 
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King of the Americas, I have a question for you.

Is it or is it not illegal in your state/country for a minor to view pornography in the first place?

We can argue about this until we run out of breath, but the crux of the matter is that the child was engaging in illegal activity on public property. You can argue about whether it should be illegal for a minor to view pornography, but it wouldn't make much of a difference, since the child was engaging in illegal activity - also, arguably, you aided and abetted by having full knowledge of what was going on and essentially allowing it to continue. You also showed that you were willing to allow other individuals to commit the same crime on public property. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the library board wasn't too pleased.

'I' did WHAT???

What leads you to believe that 'I' "aided and abetted" anyone, to do anything illegal???

If anyone aided or abetted anyone, it was the child's parent!

We offered free 'unfiltered' Internet access. Minors needed to have a parental permission slip signed first. After that, it was out of my hands.

'I' still don't know what the kid was viewing. It 'could' have been hard core porn, that sent the older woman to me, but it could have also been something else...like a WWF wrestling site with tiny bikini-clad women. I think it likely that those images would have also been offensive. If the lad had accessed this site:

http://www.imagesofeyes.com/nudes/blondal2.htm

The woman may still have issued her complaint.

I am NOT a parental replacement. It isn't within my job description to "check-up" on what people are viewing on the Internet...

Had the library spent $600 on privacy screens for all the computers, this issue would have never been raised.

*You are WRONG, though. 'I' make it a point to ignore the reading/viewing habits of ALL my patrons. Because it's NONE of my business, yours, or that old woman who was offended, what someone 'else' is doing... In a Library, it's important to keep your eyes on YOUR research, people DO have a right to privacy, regardless of their age.

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ETA:

I've been unable to find the answer to your question, but here's a good link to some relevant ALA stances.

http://www.ala.org/ala/aboutala/offices/oif/ifissues/issuesrelatedlinks/filteringdebate.cfm
 
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