Gravy
Downsitting Citizen
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2006
- Messages
- 17,078
What a strange day it was at Ground Zero yesterday. Surreal, almost. realitybites, Abby and I were there as usual. It's Abby's birthday today!
Abby's mom, AKA The Cutest Little Debunking Mom Ever, was also there, and got to hear hours of insanity. No fair bringing your mom to the fight, Abby!
And we had a big boost from Yani (sp?) from Toronto, who posts on the Screw Loose Change forum. Really nice guy, knowledgeable, and fearless.
Passions were running higher than normal, perhaps because of 9/11. The deniers had a few people I haven't seen before, and these were stark raving stupid. One woman kept insisting that NORAD had an hour and forty-five minute advance warning of the hijackings, that Einstein's theory of general relativity says that the 767s couldn't have hit the towers, and that the CIA laundered Nazi money during WWII. I am not making this up.
The exceptional thing about yesterday is how many people from the general public got involved. It's almost exclusively tourists at GZ on a Saturday, and normally most people politely listen for a minute or two, shake their heads, and walk away. Yesterday they stepped right in and hammered away at the deniers. Large crowds gathered.
An Air Force morgue technician who handled the remains from the Pentagon crash was there. He waded right in and took them on. I tried to get involved in that debate, but he held his hand up and said, "This is my fight." The deniers argued with him, loudly, for an hour.
Just to emphasize in case anyone missed it: the people who say that no plane hit the Pentagon argued loudly for an hour with the man who handled those charred human remains. This argument took place at Ground Zero.
An architecture student from the University of Miami named Patrick happened to be walking by, heard the denier arguments, found them to be structurally unsound, pulled out a wrecking ball made of pure logic, and demolished them. Again and again.
Another college-aged guy whose name I didn't catch was watching me eviscerate the claims of "Loon-Who-Walks-With-Cane," and decided to add his comments. Sometimes I can get so caught up in details that I forget the "big picture" arguments, and this guy was all about the big picture. He may be in trouble with the Fish and Wildlife Service, because he wantonly slew the Loon. People laughed. I patted him on the shoulder and went to find another creep to punish, because he had the situation completely in hand.
One of the more emotionally disturbed deniers is an older guy whom we call "fishing hat man" for obvious reasons, although "gone fishin" may be a better appellation. He has claimed to be a physicist and some sort of engineer. His usual method of debate is simply to walk away while shouting "Lies! You're a liar!" On Saturday, before a large crowd, I took on his claim that Silverstein ordered WTC 7 to be "pulled." I am very well-prepared for that argument. His whole claim rests on the contention that the word "pull" can only mean "blow up." So I read to him numerous quotes in which the firemen say "we got the order and pulled back from building 7." At least I started to read the quotes, but he walked away shouting "those are all lies!" So that makes five of the ny911truth.org deniers who accuse the FDNY of lying about building 7, including Les Jamieson, their leader. I recorded this exchange and others with a digital audio recorder, but I haven't listened to it yet.
Someone else was there making an audio recording, and he was on our side! It was George, from the University of Connecticut, who is going to do probably two half-hour radio shows on the CT lunacy. You may have encountered him on this forum! He recorded many of our encounters, and did lengthy individual interviews with us. Thanks, George!
The police were very tolerant. Several times they let large crowds gather and let arguments escalate in volume, which is unusual for them. The deniers sometimes accuse me of trying to start fights, but I don't. Here's why they say that: whenever one of them says that I'm a paid government agent (which is usually to a tourist, or behind my back or as they're walking away), I get right in their face, as close as possible without touching them, and shout, "Who's paying me, ***hole? Show me your evidence, NOW!" I repeat that over and over, and I'm going to continue doing so until they stop. I do not let people get away with lies like that. Nor do I limit my reaction to the NY911truth crowd. A tourist made that accusation to me yesterday and I got all up in his ugly mug the same way. He was very surprised.
The highlight of my day may have been when Jamie from Staten Island showed up. I had met him late in the evening on 9/11. He had paused to listen to a raving moonbat, and became so upset he could hardly speak straight. "No terrorists attacked us? They flew right over my ******* head when I was on the ferry and murdered thirteen of my friends!" Jamie had drowned his grief with a few too many beers, and his little girlfriend was trying to drag him back to the ferry. He was almost in tears. He hugged me and thanked me for fighting against the creeps. He was the third big guy to hug me within an hour. I'm thinking of starting a Downtown Big and Tall Men's Drunken and Tearful but Manly Embracing Association. Yesterday Jamie stopped by at Ground Zero because he had lost my email address. Goddamn.
I ask every 9/11 denier I meet what the NIST report says are the probable causes for the tower collapses. You know: the conclusions of the 10,000 page report. Not a single denier has known the answer, including the leaders. Zero.
These encounters need to be videotaped. It's the only way to expose the deniers for the creeps they are. Anyone willing to help? I know it's a lot of work. I'm willing to learn to edit if someone has a camera and can shoot.
Afterwards, realitybites, Abby, The Cutest Little Debunking Mom Ever, Yani and his girlfriend with the amazing eyes, Patrick, George, and I went for drinks at O'Hara's. The deniers do not go to O'Hara's. It's around the corner from FDNY Engine 10/Ladder 10.
Abby's mom, AKA The Cutest Little Debunking Mom Ever, was also there, and got to hear hours of insanity. No fair bringing your mom to the fight, Abby!
And we had a big boost from Yani (sp?) from Toronto, who posts on the Screw Loose Change forum. Really nice guy, knowledgeable, and fearless.
Passions were running higher than normal, perhaps because of 9/11. The deniers had a few people I haven't seen before, and these were stark raving stupid. One woman kept insisting that NORAD had an hour and forty-five minute advance warning of the hijackings, that Einstein's theory of general relativity says that the 767s couldn't have hit the towers, and that the CIA laundered Nazi money during WWII. I am not making this up.
The exceptional thing about yesterday is how many people from the general public got involved. It's almost exclusively tourists at GZ on a Saturday, and normally most people politely listen for a minute or two, shake their heads, and walk away. Yesterday they stepped right in and hammered away at the deniers. Large crowds gathered.
An Air Force morgue technician who handled the remains from the Pentagon crash was there. He waded right in and took them on. I tried to get involved in that debate, but he held his hand up and said, "This is my fight." The deniers argued with him, loudly, for an hour.
Just to emphasize in case anyone missed it: the people who say that no plane hit the Pentagon argued loudly for an hour with the man who handled those charred human remains. This argument took place at Ground Zero.
An architecture student from the University of Miami named Patrick happened to be walking by, heard the denier arguments, found them to be structurally unsound, pulled out a wrecking ball made of pure logic, and demolished them. Again and again.
Another college-aged guy whose name I didn't catch was watching me eviscerate the claims of "Loon-Who-Walks-With-Cane," and decided to add his comments. Sometimes I can get so caught up in details that I forget the "big picture" arguments, and this guy was all about the big picture. He may be in trouble with the Fish and Wildlife Service, because he wantonly slew the Loon. People laughed. I patted him on the shoulder and went to find another creep to punish, because he had the situation completely in hand.
One of the more emotionally disturbed deniers is an older guy whom we call "fishing hat man" for obvious reasons, although "gone fishin" may be a better appellation. He has claimed to be a physicist and some sort of engineer. His usual method of debate is simply to walk away while shouting "Lies! You're a liar!" On Saturday, before a large crowd, I took on his claim that Silverstein ordered WTC 7 to be "pulled." I am very well-prepared for that argument. His whole claim rests on the contention that the word "pull" can only mean "blow up." So I read to him numerous quotes in which the firemen say "we got the order and pulled back from building 7." At least I started to read the quotes, but he walked away shouting "those are all lies!" So that makes five of the ny911truth.org deniers who accuse the FDNY of lying about building 7, including Les Jamieson, their leader. I recorded this exchange and others with a digital audio recorder, but I haven't listened to it yet.
Someone else was there making an audio recording, and he was on our side! It was George, from the University of Connecticut, who is going to do probably two half-hour radio shows on the CT lunacy. You may have encountered him on this forum! He recorded many of our encounters, and did lengthy individual interviews with us. Thanks, George!
The police were very tolerant. Several times they let large crowds gather and let arguments escalate in volume, which is unusual for them. The deniers sometimes accuse me of trying to start fights, but I don't. Here's why they say that: whenever one of them says that I'm a paid government agent (which is usually to a tourist, or behind my back or as they're walking away), I get right in their face, as close as possible without touching them, and shout, "Who's paying me, ***hole? Show me your evidence, NOW!" I repeat that over and over, and I'm going to continue doing so until they stop. I do not let people get away with lies like that. Nor do I limit my reaction to the NY911truth crowd. A tourist made that accusation to me yesterday and I got all up in his ugly mug the same way. He was very surprised.
The highlight of my day may have been when Jamie from Staten Island showed up. I had met him late in the evening on 9/11. He had paused to listen to a raving moonbat, and became so upset he could hardly speak straight. "No terrorists attacked us? They flew right over my ******* head when I was on the ferry and murdered thirteen of my friends!" Jamie had drowned his grief with a few too many beers, and his little girlfriend was trying to drag him back to the ferry. He was almost in tears. He hugged me and thanked me for fighting against the creeps. He was the third big guy to hug me within an hour. I'm thinking of starting a Downtown Big and Tall Men's Drunken and Tearful but Manly Embracing Association. Yesterday Jamie stopped by at Ground Zero because he had lost my email address. Goddamn.
I ask every 9/11 denier I meet what the NIST report says are the probable causes for the tower collapses. You know: the conclusions of the 10,000 page report. Not a single denier has known the answer, including the leaders. Zero.
These encounters need to be videotaped. It's the only way to expose the deniers for the creeps they are. Anyone willing to help? I know it's a lot of work. I'm willing to learn to edit if someone has a camera and can shoot.
Afterwards, realitybites, Abby, The Cutest Little Debunking Mom Ever, Yani and his girlfriend with the amazing eyes, Patrick, George, and I went for drinks at O'Hara's. The deniers do not go to O'Hara's. It's around the corner from FDNY Engine 10/Ladder 10.
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