Let's watch the liberals rationalize

[Nasarius]

Come on, Ed. I would expect better than mindless liberal-bashing from you. This is something that JK would post...

 

[c0rbin]

I would consider myself liberal and I don't feel the need to rationalize the fact that people are scared of homosexuality.

Gasp...even black people!

 

[Silicon]

And why should I care about the infighting in a church?

It's all a bunch of woo-woos.

I think you have liberals confused with conservatives. They're the ones gnashing their teeth about this whole thing. So what? A gay priest or something. It's not anything the Catholic church hasn't done for centuries. It's just like "wow, a church has the guts to admit they have a gay bishop."

And ed, really this was a pretty lame troll. It seems you have no grasp at all about what liberals think, or how they deal with issues. You think that the Limbaugh rubrick of "politics of victimhood" is an actual thing, like a pledge that all liberals follow. It's not. It's an effect, to be sure, but it's NOT our motto, and it's not how we reason.

Gay rights is a wedge issue. So are a lot of things. Abortion, Guns, etc.

The point of a wedge issue, let's take abortion, is that it splits two or more constituencies of a party. So when a Democrat attacks a Republican for supporting anti-choice laws, they are using it as a wedge to push the Republican to appeal to their Religious base, while alienating the small-government, quasi-libertartian affluent Republicans.

And when Republicans attack Democrats on Abortion, it's a wedge causing them to move to the left to appeal to the women's rights voters, while alienating working-class Latino & irish catholics and others.

That's a wedge issue.

They work as wedges because political parties appeal to many different constituencies, with many different views, some not eye-to-eye.

Yes, the Democratic party has historically been the party of Gay rights. They've also historically been the party of Civil Rights for Black Americans.

I'd have to say, historically speaking it's the conservatives who have been on the wrong side of both of those issues.

Black americans have sometimes said anti-gay things. I'm sure there's at least one Gay racist in America, too. But until the Republican party gets more than one Black elected member of Congress, and one Gay, the Democratic party will continue to be the conscience of America on these issues.

 

[phildonnia]

I don't think people are scared of it, they just find it ewwy.

Perhaps this is the root of all bigotry and racism; I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who actually hates blacks or gays, but it would be much easier to find someone who thinks certain people are ewwy.

 

[peptoabysmal]

This issue involves religion and I think much of the left is heavily involved in trying to ridicule religious beliefs. I myself am an atheist, but I don't spend much time trying to convince others that religions are false. I think one of the main agendas of the left is to blur the lines between right and wrong. With religion(s) out of the way, this is a much easier task.

 

[Malachi151]

See this is only an issue for the Liberal stereotype created by Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter.

 

[c0rbin]

Phil, I think brussel sprouts are ewwy, but I don't lynch brussel sprouts or deny brussel sprouts their place at the table for those who like...to eat...um, brussel sprouts.

Pepto...

On blurring what is right and wrong, the ten commandmants say that thou shall not kill. Yet a right-wing issue is support of the death penalty. Would you care to comment on how this makes right and wrong any clearer?

Edited to fix my poor use of germanic pronouns.

 

[BillyTK]

This issue involves religion and I think much of the left is heavily involved in trying to ridicule religious beliefs. I myself am an atheist, but I don't spend much time trying to convince others that religions are false. I think one of the main agendas of the left is to blur the lines between right and wrong. With religion(s) out of the way, this is a much easier task.

You're kidding me right? You're not seriously implying (never mind suggesting) that "right and wrong" can only be arrived at via religion?

 

[Tricky]

This issue involves religion and I think much of the left is heavily involved in trying to ridicule religious beliefs.

I have not noticed that the liberal atheists are any more zealous here than the conservative ones in the Religion forum.

I myself am an atheist, but I don't spend much time trying to convince others that religions are false.

Likewise. But if someone wants to discuss it, I will.

I think one of the main agendas of the left is to blur the lines between right and wrong. With religion(s) out of the way, this is a much easier task.

Now this is one of the wisest things you have said. (Admittedly, it doesn't have much competition. )

YES!! Liberals are less likely to see a solid line between good and bad. They recognize that even people they disagree with are not evil. It seems to be the conservatives that always seem to be saying things like "you are either for us or you are against us." I am quite proud of being able to see the points of view of others without condemning them for a single belief. So let's blur that line some more! Maybe then people will recognize that we should stop with the false dichotomies.

 

[wollery]

On blurring what is right and wrong, the ten commandmants say that thou shall not kill. Yet a right-wing issue is support of the death penalty. Would you care to comment on how this makes right and wrong any clearer?

Possibly more pertinent to this debate is that although the commandments say thou shalt not kill, Leviticus clearly states that sodomites should be put to death.

 

[plindboe]

Ed, you have a twisted view of liberals. Please try to think before posting the next time.

 

[peptoabysmal]

I have not noticed that the liberal atheists are any more zealous here than the conservative ones in the Religion forum.

Yeah the world is just filled with conservative atheists.

Likewise. But if someone wants to discuss it, I will.

Now this is one of the wisest things you have said. (Admittedly, it doesn't have much competition. )

I'm watching you, alwaayyys waaaatching. (In my best Monsters Inc. voice)

YES!! Liberals are less likely to see a solid line between good and bad. They recognize that even people they disagree with are not evil. It seems to be the conservatives that always seem to be saying things like "you are either for us or you are against us." I am quite proud of being able to see the points of view of others without condemning them for a single belief. So let's blur that line some more! Maybe then people will recognize that we should stop with the false dichotomies.

Bingo! Case in point... 6 - love, my serve. Yes, lets' do that before you libs blur the line between true and false as well, shall we?

edited for VB tag abuse: Dammit! Why can't I spell QOUTE?!??!!

 

[peptoabysmal]

Likewise. But if someone wants to discuss it, I will.

Get it? That part was left blank intentionally. Oh... never mind

 

[Skeptic]

And another one falls for the old "anti-zionism equals anti-semitism" hogwash.

Yes, it's SO much easier to believe that the people claiming the holocaust was a "zionist lie", that shout "death to the jews!" in "anti-imperialist peace rallies", and that hold up signs of Ariel Sharon with a hooked noze and horns, really ONLY hate those "bad", zionists jews, and have NOTHING against you at all. But I'll stop here, or this thread will be derailed again...

 

[c0rbin]

Possibly more pertinent to this debate is that although the commandments say thou shalt not kill, Leviticus clearly states that sodomites should be put to death.

Heck, I don't know why anyone would split hairs with the Bible.

Isn't it true, that according to New Testamentists (tm), I could bugger men and BBQ babies all day, as long as I accept Jesus as my personal saviour?

Praise Jesus and bring me me some crisco!

 

[Tricky]

Yeah the world is just filled with conservative atheists.

There certainly are a number of them here. Or perhaps I should say people who are conservative about things like gun ownership, but liberal about things like the existence of God. Dang! If only people would behave the way it says on the label!

(This space intentionally left blank)

I'm watching you, alwaayyys waaaatching. (In my best Monsters Inc. voice)

Sort of like those Catholic priests, eh?

Bingo! Case in point... 6 - love, my serve. Yes, lets' do that before you libs blur the line between true and false as well, shall we?

Aw heck! Let's blur that one too. Give me a few examples of things outside of math and physics which are always true or always false.

Dammit! Why can't I spell QOUTE?!??!!

Please, Pepé! This is like shooting fish in a barrel!

 

[VicDaring]

I think one of the main agendas of the left is to blur the lines between right and wrong.

I guess this is meant as a shot, but I accept it as a compliment.

Particularly in a time when the conservative view of right and wrong is increasingly something like this:

Right:
White, hetero, Christian, suburbia, supply-side, well-to-do.

Wrong:
Everything else.

I myself am an atheist

Do you say that very loudly at large GOP gatherings?

 

[Malachi151]

This issue involves religion and I think much of the left is heavily involved in trying to ridicule religious beliefs. I myself am an atheist, but I don't spend much time trying to convince others that religions are false. I think one of the main agendas of the left is to blur the lines between right and wrong. With religion(s) out of the way, this is a much easier task.

No, the American left is just plain stupid, and has been undermined by fascism for teh past 50 years, the real agenda of "true left", i.e. the left that exists outside America, and in America prior to WWII, is not to blur the lines between right and wrong, its to demonstrate that what has traditionally accepted as right IS WRONG.

Rascism, economic exploitation, sexism, imperialism, religion, patriotism, etc, are all the "traditional rights" that the left seeks to ILLUMINATE as wrong, because they are wrong, which has essentially been proven over the past 200 years but the friggen right-wing keeps beating back the left in order to maintain power and economic dominace over the masses.

 

[Skeptic]

Possibly more pertinent to this debate is that although the commandments say thou shalt not kill, Leviticus clearly states that sodomites should be put to death.

Actually, they say" thou shall not MURDER". Not the same thing.

 

[Dancing David]

From the NYT, today:
African Anglican Leaders Outraged Over Gay Bishop in U.S.
By MARC LACEY and LAURIE GOODSTEIN

Published: November 4, 2003

NAIROBI, Kenya, Nov. 3 — Africa's Anglican leaders expressed fury on Monday at the consecration of a gay bishop in New Hampshire, renewing their intention to break from the American church and deepening an ideological fault line that crisscrossed the world.

"The Devil has clearly entered our church," said Archbishop Benjamin Nzimbi of Kenya, who has announced that his church will have nothing to do with the Episcopal Church U.S.A., which sanctioned the election of Bishop V. Gene Robinson, who was consecrated on Sunday.

How will liberals deal with this? On one hand you have the darlings of the left, the Gay community on the other, the favorite pets of the progressives, Black folks. I would bet that the "pet" attitude will prevail, something that is a reference to "cultural differences" which, translated means "well, they have bones in their noses so we have to make allowences". I also wonder how vocally the right of Africans to to have a dissenting opinion regarding a loved group will be handled.

I guess that this is not the kind of diversity that they care for. That and diverse politcal views expressed on campus.

Edited to add: "It's Psironic!"

gee Ed, there are so mant stereo types that it just boggles the mind, do you really think that i view blacks as my pets and gay people as darlings.

I can be more liberal than that and not fir the stereo type , any more than all conservatives are recists homophobes who goosestep with GWB as he spouts consercvative values and spends like Regan.

And most colleges are very conservative, they vote conservative and look conservative, liberal arts and sciences are dying, the only ones who can afford college are the conservative children of the middle class.

Oh, well carry on with the humor! It is very funny, except for the fact that most episcopalians are conservatives.