Let's all invade Syria!

[Polaris]

The issue isn't socialism, it's independence. As long as they are puppets, nobody in power will complain about any nastiness some sick absolut monarch can come up with.

But of course we all knew that already.

What's that taste like? Is it good in a bloody Mary?

 

[anglolawyer]

Then most socialist groups, from China on down, support Assad, Milosevic and Saddam?

Plus I have to tell you, yesterday at work I said to the three people in my work area, "Hey listen to this."

I told them someone had written the "real" reason the US opposed Saddam was that he was a communist. They all burst out laughing.

You could not have this conversation face-to-face. People would either laugh or walk away. Sorry but I'm telling you the truth.

The real reason was probably a complex of different things: anti-socialism, oil, regional considerations and so forth. The real reason was not that Saddam was a bad man. I have no idea why you think you need to apologise.

 

[anglolawyer]

You really didn't know Slobodan Milosevic and Gaddafi were socialists?

And news shouldn't be your only source of information in life. Try reading a book some time.

ETA: The reasons why the news aren't repeating it over and over is because most of the time it isn't relevant.

I haven't said my only source is the news. Read upthread. I have read a book about Milosevic's trial and a couple about the invasion of Iraq. Nothing about Syria or Libya. But aint it funny: Saddam, Assad, Ghaddafi and Milosevic - all evil and all lefties. Coincidence? I don't think so.

My theme is that the masses are fed blatantly distorted propaganda by the mainstream media, who swallow lies whole, doing little real investigative or critical reporting and preferring the easy route of just selling papers or advertising while our masters pursue hidden agendas, sometimes in broad daylight so confident are they of not being held to account. Nobody has been put on trial over Iraq for example.

Please explain the highlighted part.

Anyone got any news on the gas attack the thread started with? That's gone quiet.

 

[newyorkguy]

But aint it funny: Saddam, Assad, Ghaddafi and Milosevic - all evil and all lefties. Coincidence? I don't think so.

What else do they (did they) have in common? Maybe they're all allergic to shell fish? I get the feeling you're having a bit of fun with us. That this is a bit of a put on.

Why do you overlook the fact that all four were involved in mass murder? That the world largely views all four as brutal criminals? Coincidence?

George Bush said the US was going after Saddam because of the suspicion that's where the next terrorist attack would emanate from. Either directly or with Saddam's support. That Saddam was a brutal remorseless killer who slaughtered his own people and therefore had no claim to legitimacy anyway.

Did I agree with that analysis? Not totally. I do feel Bush was largely sincere. He thought Saddam was a very bad leader and a destabilizing force and, given the new post-9/11 reality, should no longer be tolerated.

I wouldn't just dismiss that as rhetoric.

 

[newyorkguy]

My theme is that the masses are fed blatantly distorted propaganda by the mainstream media, who swallow lies whole, doing little real investigative or critical reporting and preferring the easy route of just selling papers or advertising while our masters pursue hidden agendas, sometimes in broad daylight so confident are they of not being held to account.

This is where I have a problem with these kinds of posts. Okay, the news media feeds us blatantly distorted propaganda. You believe that, fine.

Except two paragraphs later you ask has anyone read the news?

Anyone got any news on the gas attack the thread started with?

So if you believe the news media feeds us blatantly distorted propaganda, why would you be interested in what they're reporting? About anything?

You can't have it both ways.

 

[anglolawyer]

This is where I have a problem with these kinds of posts. Okay, the news media feeds us blatantly distorted propaganda. You believe that, fine.

Except two paragraphs later you ask has anyone read the news?



So if you believe the news media feeds us blatantly distorted propaganda, why would you be interested in what they're reporting? About anything?

You can't have it both ways.

I most certainly can. The news must be construed, that's all. What I want to know is why it's gone on all quiet on the gas front. Few weeks ago Obana was saying a red line had been crossed by the Assad regime. Now, crickets. Maybe they have worked out they just gave the flesh eating rebels a green flag to get into the covert self-gassing game.

 

[anglolawyer]

What else do they (did they) have in common? Maybe they're all allergic to shell fish? I get the feeling you're having a bit of fun with us. That this is a bit of a put on.

Why do you overlook the fact that all four were involved in mass murder? That the world largely views all four as brutal criminals? Coincidence?

George Bush said the US was going after Saddam because of the suspicion that's where the next terrorist attack would emanate from. Either directly or with Saddam's support. That Saddam was a brutal remorseless killer who slaughtered his own people and therefore had no claim to legitimacy anyway.

Did I agree with that analysis? Not totally. I do feel Bush was largely sincere. He thought Saddam was a very bad leader and a destabilizing force and, given the new post-9/11 reality, should no longer be tolerated.

I wouldn't just dismiss that as rhetoric.

I think their shell fish allergy a better explanation for their common fate than that they (or were) are mass murderers assuming that's even true. Was Saddam not a mass murderer when he was at war with Iran and we were supplying him with arms? Expediency. That's what counts. And a general anti-left tendency lies behind western policy.

 

[Caustic Logic]

ETA: The reasons why the news aren't repeating it over and over is because most of the time it isn't relevant.

As we repeatedly destroy independent socialist governments, it's unspecified that they're socialist because - it isn't relevant. Sure. Only the evil (a side-effect?) is what matters.

Soviet-inspired State-run central banks? In 2001 I hear, only these countries still had them:
Iran
Iraq
North Korea
(not Syria)
Afghanistan
Libya
Cuba
Sudan
Yemen

I think Yugoslavia was on the list before. But this is just ... well there must be some sort of connection. It must be real roundabout in order to not be a factor.

 

[angrysoba]

Soviet-inspired State-run central banks? In 2001 I hear, only these countries still had them:
Iran
Iraq
North Korea
(not Syria)
Afghanistan
Libya
Cuba
Sudan
Yemen.

Yes, I've heard some theory like this before. The capitalist global elite are going after North Korea because they can't abide a successful banking rival to their own usurious machinations^TM.

I would think a moment's thought should be enough to reject such a foolish idea.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Then this one should have you rolling on the floor. (It's from a US Department of Defense press release.)

Link

Just recall that the issue with Arming Saudis has to do with Iran, in the Strategic Issues department.

As to the guy with the video and heart eating: way to win support, Abu.
Real class act.

 

[anglolawyer]

The BBC is reporting it has evidence implicating the government side in a gas attack in Saraqab last month. It is said that during an artillery bombardment objects were seen to fall from helicopters and this was followed by about 8 people presenting symptoms consistent with being gassed. I assume the rebels don't have helicopters. The Syrian government strongly denies using gas.

Doctors at the local hospital told the BBC they had admitted eight people suffering from breathing problems. Some were vomiting and others had constricted pupils, they said. One woman later died.

A number of videos passed to the BBC appear to support these claims, but it is impossible to independently verify them.

A doctor who treated the dead woman said her symptoms corresponded to organophosphate poisoning and that samples had been sent for testing.

Both the US and UK have spoken of growing evidence that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons.

Rebel fighters have also been accused of using them. They also have denied this.

The UN says estimates that the two-year-old conflict has left at least 80,000 people dead.

ETA the organophosphate testing seems to be taking a while. If this story is true there must be some dumb schmucks in charge of the government forces.

 

[anglolawyer]

Yes, I've heard some theory like this before. The capitalist global elite are going after North Korea because they can't abide a successful banking rival to their own usurious machinations^TM.

I would think a moment's thought should be enough to reject such a foolish idea.

I was unaware North Korea was known for its strong banking sector. Might transfer my Swiss account if they have good rates. They do, however, have WMD. Surely we should be declaring war on those little suckers any day now.

 

[Caustic Logic]

On the list of state-run bank nations-I haven't verified that, just saw it around. Figured maybe someone would point me to a de-bunk if there is one. Angry: gave it a moment's thought, not sure I had the thought you thought I should. Any hints?

The BBC is reporting it has evidence implicating the government side in a gas attack in Saraqab last month. It is said that during an artillery bombardment objects were seen to fall from helicopters and this was followed by about 8 people presenting symptoms consistent with being gassed. I assume the rebels don't have helicopters. The Syrian government strongly denies using gas.



ETA the organophosphate testing seems to be taking a while. If this story is true there must be some dumb schmucks in charge of the government forces.

I was about to read that article, thanks for a preview. As Brown Moses recently publicized, a certain plastic grenade was seen after that attack and the one previously in Aleppo, April 13. No one has a clear ID, but it's similar to riot control grenades made in India, sold en masse to Turkey in 2007. Not quite the same though ... anyway, could be dropped from helicopters, as alleged in both cases, or tossed by the only people seen holding exact matches - see the photo there.

Do the rebels have helicopters? No. Do they have people who could make up lies about helicopters to rule themselves out? Yes.

Just saw a second video from the April 13 incident: disturbing video obtained by Global Post. Note the torn plastic sheeting the grenade(s) fell through. Force of gravity after a fall from a helicopter, or sliced open and tossed in? Also note one of the gas symptoms - aside from foaming/milking at the mouth and gentle spasms (for the men) - appears to be severe beating of the feet and ankles.

 

[anglolawyer]

On the list of state-run bank nations-I haven't verified that, just saw it around. Figured maybe someone would point me to a de-bunk if there is one. Angry: gave it a moment's thought, not sure I had the thought you thought I should. Any hints?



I was about to read that article, thanks for a preview. As Brown Moses recently publicized, a certain plastic grenade was seen after that attack and the one previously in Aleppo, April 13. No one has a clear ID, but it's similar to riot control grenades made in India, sold en masse to Turkey in 2007. Not quite the same though ... anyway, could be dropped from helicopters, as alleged in both cases, or tossed by the only people seen holding exact matches - see the photo there.

Do the rebels have helicopters? No. Do they have people who could make up lies about helicopters to rule themselves out? Yes.

Just saw a second video from the April 13 incident: disturbing video obtained by Global Post. Note the torn plastic sheeting the grenade(s) fell through. Force of gravity after a fall from a helicopter, or sliced open and tossed in? Also note one of the gas symptoms - aside from foaming/milking at the mouth and gentle spasms (for the men) - appears to be severe beating of the feet and ankles.

Interestinger and interestinger. Thanks. This is a much closer view of the sorts of things that would be used as evidence of the deployment of chemical weapons than I realised was out there. The rewards are so high for the rebels to fabricate that they would be less than mortal if they didn't do it.

I just thought of a source of intelligence that might be available to the US or the west - senior defectors from the Assad regime, of whom there have been several. Now these guys also have every reason to lie, which is fine, but they could as well have inside dope on the precise kind of munitions, suppliers, locations and that kind of thing that could be verified. So there's that.

In the film with the plastic sheeting, apart from the plastic cylinder grenade, that may only be a CS gas canister used for riot control, there is a crumpled lump of what looks like metal on the steps below the hole. Any idea what that is supposed to be?

If it were proved that the rebels were gassing their own, would the US intervene on the side of Assad? Why not?

 

[Caustic Logic]

Interestinger and interestinger. Thanks. This is a much closer view of the sorts of things that would be used as evidence of the deployment of chemical weapons than I realised was out there.

A Closer Look, we call our own stuff (not in the last two links). CW allegations page, handy. April 6, Jobar, is a sleeper. Myosis (?) is clearly documented. Two guys with the same exact shade of green eyes display extremely constricted pupils, a pretty specific sign of sloppy fakery of sarin usage. This might or might not get highlighted soon. I need to finally make an image for that one.

The rewards are so high for the rebels to fabricate that they would be less than mortal if they didn't do it.

Are you implying that this socialist regime and ally of Iran is perhaps not so conveniently plagued with evil as to offer us every possible reason to destroy them (when possible)? Wot, some kind of CT nutter?

 

[Caustic Logic]

Is this another general purpose thread?

Running the risk, I'll just toss in these fun tidbits.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22263331

Bassam Wahbh's kidnappers filmed as they cut off his finger and sent the video to his family
Bassam Wahbh holds up his hand to show where his finger was severed with an axe - another victim of Syria's growing epidemic of kidnapping.
...
Mr Wahbh was held for 53 days by the rebel Free Syrian Army.
...
Asked why he was kidnapped, Mr Wahbh tells me: "For material and sectarian reasons. I'm a Shia. The sectarian factor was clear, they directed sectarian insults to me and my sect.
"They consider me an infidel. They hold a firm belief that we should be slaughtered and killed. This surprised me a lot. I didn't expect that such ignorance existed, and such hate existed."

Okay? There's a few bad apples? Enough of them together that they can say and do these things with no one saying enough's enough? For 53 days, through the cutting, threats, etc.? And time and again in city after city? And we're seriously wanting to give them guns, after "vetting"? Because of things we believe the regime has done, based on what the rebels said, upon posting some youtube video they filmed, of **** that's been happening only since they started plaguing the country?

Whoa.

Sorry.

ABC News, reporting Three government officials, all Alawi, executed by gunshot in the public square in Raqqah, biggest city yet liberated. This I think is Al-Qaeda, not FSA - officially, our weapons wouldn't go to them, unless the Qataris or Turks intermediate and we tacitly approve, as has been the case so far.

”We respond to the criminal Bashar who is killing Sunnis everywhere,” the man with the megaphone said. “Now we decided to come close to God by killing those Alawites…”

on the cannibal" video, ABC adds:

...Sunni rebel commander slicing open the body of a dead regime soldier with a knife, removing his lung and biting into it. “I swear to God we will eat your hearts and your livers, you soldiers of Bashar the dog,” the man says to the camera.
“Hopefully we will slaughter all of them [Alawites],” the commander, Khalid al-Hamad, later told TIME Magazine, which first uncovered the clip. “I have another video clip that I will send to them. In the clip, I am sawing another shabiha [pro-government militiaman] with a saw. The saw we use to cut trees. I sawed him into small pieces and large ones.”
As the world reacted with horror, the main political Syrian opposition group, the Syrian National Coalition, condemned the action and called for the man to be tried. The military wing, the Free Syrian Army said it “completely rejects the ill-treatment of the wounded and the disfigurement of the dead.”

Action, we'll see. FSA: the whole world is "vetting" you somewhat over this.

 

[newyorkguy]

Does anyone think perhaps it's time for the West to intervene in support of Bashar al-Assad? Sounds like it!

 

[anglolawyer]

Does anyone think perhaps it's time for the West to intervene in support of Bashar al-Assad? Sounds like it!

Why not? I ask rhetorically. Why is the west taking sides against him?

 

[anglolawyer]

This BBC article explains how to investigate allegations of the use of chemical weapons. Curiously, under the headline and the opening paragraph:

How to investigate chemical weapons allegations


The US and UK have expressed growing concern that chemical weapons may have been used in Syria, most likely by government forces. Ralf Trapp, an international disarmament consultant who specialises in chemical and biological weapons, looks at how such evidence is collected and evaluated.

there is actually nothing at all about the attribution of responsibility. There is this sidebar to the article:

Syria's chemical weapons

The CIA believes Syria has had a chemical weapons programme "for years and already has a stockpile of CW agents which can be delivered by aircraft, ballistic missile, and artillery rockets"
Syria is believed to possess mustard gas and sarin, a highly toxic nerve agent
The CIA also believes that Syria has attempted to develop more toxic and more persistent nerve agents, such as VX gas
A report citing Turkish, Arab and Western intelligence agencies put Syria's stockpile at approximately 1,000 tonnes of chemical weapons, stored in 50 towns and cities
Syria has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) or ratified the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention (BTWC)

The sources for this are CSIS and RUSI. The first is The Centre for Strategic and International Studies. The second is The Royal United Services Institute. Anyone know anything about these?

 

[Childlike Empress]

The sources for this are CSIS and RUSI. The first is The Centre for Strategic and International Studies. The second is The Royal United Services Institute. Anyone know anything about these?

Read this and then try to find the mentioned pattern with CSIS.