Leslie Raphael's (Public) Conveniences

[gumboot]

And instead of simply omitting the one brief snippet with the truck passing Tony (in the opposite-to-funeral-procession direction), they went to the trouble to mirror-image it, so we'd be extra-fooled into thinking the closeups of Tony were really taken at the funeral?

I think you're completely wrong...

It is the first shot, the crash-zoom during the salute, that is the inserted pick-up shot. If it is mirrored (I'm not convinced) that means everyone is saluting with their left hand instead of their right, which would explain why the guy behind Tony to camera right looks so completely unco.

Also note in the salute shot, the person to camera left of Tony has a white hat on, yet in the other shot everyone around him has a blue hat on.

I would say they missed a shot of Tony during the salute (they were looking further along the line and not ready for it) and so grabbed it later, maybe after the service with whatever other firemen were handy.

I'm unconvinced about Tony's "sore" because the image quality is too poor to detect anything clearly.

-Andrew

 

[Ray Ubinger]

Les is saying Jules Naudet wasn't just in the right place at the right time, he was in the perfect place at the perfect time, in the perfect way.

Crappy shot,

Great shot, dramatic, historic, unique, world-famous. Only 7/10ths of a mile away. Only mildly out of focus.

barely caught.

That was intentional. Otherwise he would have had to track the object in camera and thus might have missed the crucial impact.

The way they staged it, he only had to pan straight over to the North Tower, which he knew would be impacted. The AT&T bldg in the right foreground keeps the object blocked until the last second or so. This helps disguise that the cameraman's pan aimed onto the TOWER about to be impacted, not onto the flying object.

You, yourself say you can't even identify the plane as a large airliner, Ray Ubinger. You call it a "Cessna-sized blob."

But planes aren't blobby, especially not 767s from only 7/10ths of a mile away. Ergo I can and do identify it -- as a non-plane. What about it looks like a 767 to you?
http://thewebfairy.com/911/flyingpig/flashframe.jpg


Ray Ubinger

 

[Regnad Kcin]

I love nuts, don't you?

Cashews, almonds, conspiracy theorists...

 

[Ray Ubinger]

"Editing" like showing two different shots of Mr. Backofhead's right arm stabbing toward Father Judge (whose left hand slides down from Chief Pfeifer's right shoulder) when there was supposedly only one camera there?
http://911foreknowledge.com/judge.htm

Ok, so what does this have to do with conspiracy theories about 9/11? Syringes? Gun barrels? Murders captured on film?

You mean what does Father Judge's murder have to do with the S11 plot OTHER than that it happened inside WTC1 on 9/11?? Sheesh. If you believe the official explanation of Father Judge's death, see if you can substantiate it by finding the source of the claim that he gave someone Last Rites that morning. I've looked and looked. There's apparently no actual witness statement to that effect. It just appeared in the news out of nowhere as purported fact.

What does ANY of this have to do with the Naudet brothers being "in" on 9/11? Or ANYTHING at all for that matter?

It was Jules Naudet who stood there and filmed Father Judge getting shrubbed, just like he stood there and filmed the 1st Hit Impact victims getting shrubbed by his bosses' mysterious non-plane murder weapon.

Basically the Naudet-FDNY team arranged in advance to make a snuff film out of S11 and then they sold it back to us as a respectable documentary. This is my central thesis.

Btw, the "syringe" looks an awful lot like the gas detector used in the footage from the 1st tower-hit.

It's too small for that. The gas detector is as wide as Chief Pfeifer's palm, like a handheld radio. The "syringe" is so narrow that it is able to be held by a man's index finger being curled around it.

"Editing" like making the Gorumba funeral procession NOT reverse direction?
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/tonysore.htm

Ok, so what does this have to do with conspiracy theories about 9/11?

It goes toward establishing the alleged FDNY rookie Tony Benetatos as some kind of actor or undercover agent rather than a real fireman. He wasn't really at the Gorumba funeral. The Naudets faked his attendance with creative editing. Wherever Tony really was, the truck was driving the opposite direction from the trucks in the funeral procession. They mirror-imaged the truck-passing-Tony snippet to make it look like it was at the funeral.


Some other reasons to suspect that this man Benetatos (who was allegedly the original focus of their documentary) was actually just a scripted excuse for them to be able to get so much dramatic footage, is:

1. He never appears in the footage from the fireman's boot camp where they allegedly discovered him.

2. He is never shown doing one lick of actual firefighting anywhere in the entire movie. (Standing around in a uniform doesn't count.)

3. An elaborate plot device is constructed to get him off camera for most of the big day. (the Retiree ex Machina, Larry "I Needa Cuppa Cawfee" Burns, who gets Tony to disobey a direct order to stay at the firehouse (the first of three such occurrences in the movie) -- plus the Gloveless Exit, wherein Tony sends THE CAMERAMAN (Gedeon) back to fetch "a box of medical gloves," but then Tony DITCHES the cameraman)

4. He can't keep a straight face when he's talking about poor deceased Michael Gorumba.
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/tonyreaction.htm

5. He can't keep a straight face when telling a tall tale about his time at Ground Zero.
http://911foreknowledge.com/badbleed.htm

6. He gets a SINGING credit at the end.


Think of him as FONY FDNY TONY.


Ray Ubinger

 

[Ray Ubinger]

Good ol' Ray! Not only were the Naudet's in on it, they edited it, and released all the details, for all to see, and only Ray is smart enough to see it!

I'm neither the first nor last person to conclude from the Naudet movie that the Naudets were in on the S11 plot.

Your conspiracies equal "I've never seen it, so it has to be a bad thing."

Your world equals "Documentarians lie all the time, it's perfectly normal, just like wounds on people's faces natrually change cheeks."
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/tonysore.htm

and "CIA man in white shirt, bad, bad CIA man." (me I think the guy in the white shirt is DARPA or ONI, myself, just based on that wet finger I stuck in the air.)

FYI, I didn't write that page with the white-shirt-CIA comment, our collaborator Jim Scott did. He wrote one or two pages, so did Webfairy, and Les Raphael wrote his essay, and I wrote the rest. FWIW, I agree that Jim's white-shirt speculation is flimsy. Most of the site's writing was pasted together from unpolished emails not originally intended for publication. I acknowledge this as a weakness of the site.

Maybe the safest place for you is public office.

If only the elections would be de-rigged so people could actually vote for me and have it count.

You can do less damage there than spitting on the graves of the FDNY

No one on the Naudet-FDNY team died.

and expressing the boogieman did it theory about people, (the Naudet's included) who have the fortitude to stay the course of their job and profession, when it may cost them their lives, rather than grabbing their magic hat and talking through it from the safety of their political office.

The Naudets have so little fortitude to stay the course of their job and profession that they've done no new projects since S11. Their job was done by early/mid-2003 when they stopped giving interviews to plug their dvd. Now they seem to be in hiding. No new documentaries, no anniversary appearances, not a peep. I wonder what they do for money anymore.
http://www.blogigo.co.uk/socialdemocracynow/200510


Ray Ubinger

 

[CptColumbo]

Ray,
Your above questions (post 244) lead me to believe that you have never actually watched the film, as most of them are answered in it. It gives me the impression that you have just read articles about it on certain CT web sites. The answers to the rest of your questions would be obvious if you had an idea of how documentary film-making and television journalism are done. Watch some other documentaries (not on the Internet) and you will see many of the same techniques of camera work and editing used, especially on comercial networks that need ratings and comercial breaks. They have to get the information across, but they also need to grab the viewer and build drama. After watching other docs, then watch 9/11.

Also you are making some pretty strong accussations against the FDNY and it's personel. Perhaps you should take it to the men/women of Engine 7, Ladder 1, if you are so sure of the "facts" as you see them. Let me know how it goes.

ETA post #

 

[CptColumbo]

No one on the Naudet-FDNY team died.

Do you expect them to apologize for surviving?

 

[CptColumbo]

The Naudets have so little fortitude to stay the course of their job and profession that they've done no new projects since S11. Their job was done by early/mid-2003 when they stopped giving interviews to plug their dvd. Now they seem to be in hiding. No new documentaries, no anniversary appearances, not a peep. I wonder what they do for money anymore.
http://www.blogigo.co.uk/socialdemocracynow/200510


Ray Ubinger

That just increases their credibility in my mind. If I had witnessed, first-hand, what they saw I would probably want to get out of the business and never want to talk about it again.

 

[Ray Ubinger]

The only thing you have, are people looking up suddenly and you claim it's happening at 8:46am.

No, I also have the location pegged to within sight of WTC and the timing pegged to well before the 1st Collapse.

Sir, one could see the WTC from most of Manhattan.

Manhattan is mostly covered by opaque buildings much much taller than any pedestrian. And my 8:46 timing claim does not come only from the sudden-looking-up by some people, but also from the lighting cues and from the quality of the crowd (thin crowd, and STARTING with NOBODY looking up, but everyone just casually walking).
http://911foreknowledge.com/bravenewworld.htm


Ray Ubinger

 

[CptColumbo]

Manhattan is mostly covered by opaque buildings much much taller than any pedestrian. And my 8:46 timing claim does not come only from the sudden-looking-up by some people, but also from the lighting cues and from the quality of the crowd (thin crowd, and STARTING with NOBODY looking up, but everyone just casually walking).
http://911foreknowledge.com/bravenewworld.htm


Ray Ubinger

Now I know you've never been to Manhattan, at least not near the battery. Have you ever actually experienced any of the things you are writing about or are you just depending on what other people tell you?

 

[Ray Ubinger]

even if you can prove that that footage is of reactions to the first hit, you still have no evidence of a government cover-up, or of the Naudets' involvement in it.

Whoever was ALREADY FILMING pedestrians who were ABOUT TO show reaction to the 1st Hit, filmed with FOREKNOWLEDGE of the 1st Hit, and, whoever he was, his Naudet-exclusive footage makes him someone on the Naudet-FDNY team. Gedeon Naudet is the obvious best guess, since known Gedeon Naudet footage from that same location appears several other times in the movie.


Ray Ubinger

 

[Ray Ubinger]

Just do this when you want to quote. Type {quote} in front of the text, and {/quote}at the end of the text, except replace the {}'s with []'s.

ETA: you can quote a specific individual by starting the quoted text with {quote=Ray Ubinger}, for example or {quote=orphia nay}.

Thank you, I hope it shows that I have been applying your instruction pretty well! Now would someone please tell me how to post a photo from a known url, rather than posting simply the url?


Ray Ubinger
edited to fix bad following of instruction which resulted in a blank quote box, d'oh!

 

[Mr. Skinny]

Thank you, I hope it shows that I have been applying your instruction pretty well! Now would someone please tell me how to post a photo from a known url, rather than posting simply the url?


Ray Ubinger
edited to fix bad following of instruction which resulted in a blank quote box, d'oh!

You're welcome, Ray. I'm sure the folks in this discussion really appreciate it! Makes the discussion so much easier to follow.

 

[Ray Ubinger]

YOU are the only one here who thinks that those people are suddenly reacting to anything

FOUR of them SIMULTANEOUSLY (within about one second of one another) and in MID-STRIDE go from walking normally to looking up and/or around.

and you simply ignore all the people in the video who aren't reacting at all.

I submit that they are just about to. The clip cuts short after only about one second of real time. (stretched by the Naudets to about four seconds in slow motion) I calculate this from counting the number of non-duplicate frames in the four-second clip and finding it is about the same (34) as the number of frames (about 30) in several randomly selected single-second snippets from non-slow-motion scenes.

There is NOTHING in that video that indicates anything but a few people turning to look at a disaster that has already happened.

Once it already happened, that block was much more crowded, with almost everyone standing still and looking up. To establish that, watch this undisputed post-1st-Hit snippet from that same (bravenewworld, Church-just-south-of-Murray) location:
http://911foreknowledge.com/debris/location4.htm
The sparse scene of initially-normally-walking people in the bravenewworld clip is of a quantitatively and qualitatively different crowd, in a different, pre-attack time.

For even more footage of how standing-still and shellshocked the POST-1st-Hit pedestrians looked (farther north on Church St., I think), replace the 4 in that url with 1, 2 and 3.


Ray Ubinger
edited to delete one ungrammatical/redundant word

 

[gumboot]

If you believe the official explanation of Father Judge's death, see if you can substantiate it by finding the source of the claim that he gave someone Last Rites that morning.

The official story is Father Judge died of a heart attack in the lobby of the North Tower during the collapse of the South Tower. Why do we need to prove he gave last rites that morning to substantiate his death?

Basically the Naudet-FDNY team arranged in advance to make a snuff film out of S11 and then they sold it back to us as a respectable documentary. This is my central thesis.

I believe this has been addressed before. Let me recap. You, sir, are a despicable creep.

It's too small for that. The gas detector is as wide as Chief Pfeifer's palm, like a handheld radio.

*sigh*

Ray. We have been through this. Okay? The "syringe" is a ballpoint pen. The "gun" is a hand-held radio. Got it?

Wherever Tony really was, the truck was driving the opposite direction from the trucks in the funeral procession. They mirror-imaged the truck-passing-Tony snippet to make it look like it was at the funeral.

For the last time Ray... words of one syllable...

The.
Shot.
With.
The.
Truck.
In.
It.
Is.
Not.
Flipped.

1. He never appears in the footage from the fireman's boot camp where they allegedly discovered him.

The "bootcamp" footage has a single shot in which faces of recruits are visible - it depicts a group marching past in their gear. We glimpse perhaps a dozen faces, out of a class of 99. No reason to expect we would see Tony's face in this shot.

The only time we get clear shots of recruit faces is in the interviews. Tony is included. (Incidentally they claim it was in the interviews that they discovered him, so not showing him prior to that makes story-sense).

2. He is never shown doing one lick of actual firefighting anywhere in the entire movie. (Standing around in a uniform doesn't count.)

Have you forgotten the entire thing at the beginning - that probie's either bring a lot of fires with them, or there are no fires? That the Naudet's had been waiting weeks and weeks for Tony to get to attend a fire? But it never came? That when you go too long without a fire a big one comes along? Did you miss all this?

3. An elaborate plot device is constructed to get him off camera for most of the big day.

An elaborate plot known as the "roster". Tony wasn't on duty that morning. When he came in both engines were gone, along with the entire compliment. He remained behind to man the phones because he was the only one there. Makes sense to ME.

Think of him as FONY FDNY TONY.

I could respond in kind, but I will refrain.

-Andrew

 

[Ray Ubinger]

Gumboot on Judge

The official story is Father Judge died of a heart attack in the lobby of the North Tower during the collapse of the South Tower.

You found nothing about his being hit by falling stuff, while or after giving someone Last Rites, in the official explanation? Is the heart-attack determination from an autopsy report? The closest I know of is witnesses saying he had no pulse. (No revival attempt is reported, nor seen in the vid.)

The "syringe" is a ballpoint pen.

It's too fat for a ballpoint, though I've wondered whether it's maybe a magic marker. Still, I discern a plunger-shaped top, and a needle-shaped bottom.
Screenshot:
http://911foreknowledge.com/syringe.jpg
Quicktime:
http://thewebfairy.com/911/911/dust/syringe.closeup.mov

The "gun" is a hand-held radio.

I abandon my original opinion that anything in the scene can be ID'd as a gun. But what is the "cattleprod," with its unsegmented, pointy rod sticking out?
http://tinyurl.com/7kuqx


Ray Ubinger

 

[Ray Ubinger]

Gumboot on Tony

Wherever Tony really was, the truck was driving the opposite direction from the trucks in the funeral procession. They mirror-imaged the truck-passing-Tony snippet to make it look like it was at the funeral.

The.
Shot.
With.
The.
Truck.
In.
It.
Is.
Not.
Flipped.

How.
Did.
His.
Sore.
Change.
Cheeks?
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/tonysore.htm


Ray Ubinger

 

[60hzxtl]

There is only one explanation left - Ray was in on it!

This is a cry for help. Ray knew about it! Ray must have been part of the conspiracy, and this is his confession -

Turn yourself in Ray, it's your only hope.

 

[gumboot]

You found nothing about his being hit by falling stuff, while or after giving someone Last Rites, in the official explanation? Is the heart-attack determination from an autopsy report? The closest I know of is witnesses saying he had no pulse. (No revival attempt is reported, nor seen in the vid.)

Yes heart attack is the official explanation. I am also aware of the myth that he was hit by debris while giving last rites. It is an urban myth, giving a "saintly" end to a man much admired by many people.

He was hit debris while giving last rites, YES. As a result he went inside the lobby where it was safe (other firemen were killed by falling people). That is where we see him in the documentary, shaken and frightened - he has seen firemen killed by people committing suicide due to the horrific conditions above, before being hit himself - find me someone that WOULDN'T be shaken after that!

He then later died during the South Tower collapse, of a heart attack. People heard he was giving last rites when hit by debris, and they heard he was dead. They put two and two together, producing an incorrect conclusion.

It's too fat for a ballpoint, though I've wondered whether it's maybe a magic marker. Still, I discern a plunger-shaped top, and a needle-shaped bottom.

The camera lens is covered in a fine layer of dust, the air is dusty, and the cameraman is using a directional bright light. As a result the light going into the lens is diffused. This gives it a blurry "halo" appearance. Things appear much thicker than they really are because they "blow out" at their edges. Things close to the camera, in the camera light, blow out more than things further away, thus things in the foreground look more distorted.

It is a pen. Ray. A pen. Not a syringe. Not a knife. Not an alien weapon. It is a pen.

I abandon my original opinion that anything in the scene can be ID'd as a gun. But what is the "cattleprod," with its unsegmented, pointy rod sticking out?

*sigh*

That's the radio, Ray. It's the aerial of a hand-held radio. You can see the body of the radio in the guy's hand.

Please stop with this nonsense.

-Andrew

 

[gumboot]

How.
Did.
His.
Sore.
Change.
Cheeks?
http://911foreknowledge.com/funeral/tonysore.htm

We only see his sore in those two shots. Has it ever occured to you that the OTHER shot is the one that is flipped?

Must I do all your thinking for you?

-Andrew