Moderated Legitimate 9/11 Questions

[FineWine]

Did you even bother answering the question?

I was taking a page from your book.

 

[BigAl]

Your answer doesn't make sense. Are you saying there was no Saudi involvement?

Aside from Osama himself and his own part of the family fortune, it seems that none of the ~200 family members helped. Coll goes into the several investigations at length.

You do know that the entire family disowned him and divested him of as much of the family fortune as was possible, do you not?

You might elaborate on why you claim that Bush blocked some investigation.

 

[RedIbis]

Aside from Osama himself and his own part of the family fortune, it seems that none of the ~200 family members helped. Coll goes into the several investigations at length.

You do know that the entire family disowned him and divested him of as much of the family fortune as was possible, do you not?

There's more to Saudi involvment than Bin laden.

 

[FineWine]

Did the White House or Bush administration block investigation of Saudi involvement? Yes or no.

You are absolutely the last person in the world who should dare to press anyone else for an answer. You have made yourself notorious for running away from everything inconvenient to your delusions.

 

[BigAl]

There's more to Saudi involvment than Bin laden.

Sorry. You are speaking of teh Saudi family and I was reading bin Laden.

Certainly there was participation by some members of the house of Saud in the events of 9/11 and I am sure we don't know all of it.

 

[RedIbis]

You are absolutely the last person in the world who should dare to press anyone else for an answer. You have made yourself notorious for running away from everything inconvenient to your delusions.

When desperate, the debunker will resort to righteous indignation.

 

[FineWine]

When desperate, the debunker will resort to righteous indignation.

Oh, yeah, I'm real desperate. A fraud who never ever answers questions asks irrelevant nonsense to conceal his intellectual bankruptcy and ah'm jes' shiverin' in mah boots!

Tell us why fifteen of the hijackers were Saudis and ZERO were Afghanis or Iraqis. Oh, sorry--that's a RELEVANT question.

 

[RedIbis]

Oh, yeah, I'm real desperate. A fraud who never ever answers questions asks irrelevant nonsense to conceal his intellectual bankruptcy and ah'm jes' shiverin' in mah boots!

Tell us why fifteen of the hijackers were Saudis and ZERO were Afghanis or Iraqis. Oh, sorry--that's a RELEVANT question.

Why isn't Saudi involvement relevant to the discussion?

 

[FineWine]

Why isn't Saudi involvement relevant to the discussion?

Because I doubt that you know anything.

Obviously Wahhabist Saudis were a major source of funding for the terrorists. This is common knowledge. If you have anything to add, do so.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Why isn't Saudi involvement relevant to the discussion?

Personally, I think you've raised a good point.

I would certainly like to see your evidence that the White House blocked attempts to investigate the Saudis, but if they did (either directly or indirectly), I would want to know about it.

Not that I think this points to a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario, but it could mean that some of the people behind the attack might have escaped justice because of political cowardice.

So the question is: Is there any evidence that members of the Saud family or elements within the Saudi government were involved, and if so, was everything done to investigate this evidence?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Personally, I think you've raised a good point.

I would certainly like to see your evidence that the White House blocked attempts to investigate the Saudis, but if they did (either directly or indirectly), I would want to know about it.

Not that I think this points to a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario, but it could mean that some of the people behind the attack might have escaped justice because of political cowardice.

So the question is: Is there any evidence that members of the Saud family or elements within the Saudi government were involved, and if so, was everything done to investigate this evidence?

RedIbis has indeed, finally, raised a decent point. In some of the books on Bin Laden, it was noted that while his family as a whole disowned him, going so far as to "anglicize" the name by making it a run-on word ("Binladen") when dealing with westerners, a few of the brothers sympathized with at least his Afghanistan activities, and helped fund those under the table. Now, granted, the family is large enough to where there's a spectrum of opinion, and the family members who hate Osama really, truly hate him. But some do not. And they do in fact have some access to money.

Now, given the fact that it was the Saudi government that encouraged the rest of the Bin Laden family to disown him (this was well before 9/11, IIRC; I think it was his doings in the Sudan that led to that... others who've more recently read the literature can correct me on that if I'm mistaken), I'm at a loss as to why they (the Saudi government) haven't pushed for a more detailed accounting of what the sympathetic family members might have been doing to support Osama's antics around the world. From my limited perspective, I can only conclude that there's much embarassment to be had outside the Bin Laden family, perhaps extending into the royal family itself, that keeps such questions under wraps.

All of this, of course, is subject to correction by honest, hard data. Even the books I've read are thirdhand accounts. It could just as easily be that the Saudi government is simply embarassed by the fact that a native was responsible for an attack on their biggest customer, nothing more. Or it can just as easily be that the Saudi intelligence and law enforcement apparatus is too incompetent to properly investigate the matter, therefore embarrasing the Saudi government to the point where they really downplay internal connections to Osama. Regardless, it's a reasonable question to ask what the Saudi government knows about Bin Laden's support inside the kingdom.

ETA: Oh, to answer Aggle's question - There are allegations, but I don't think anyone's produced any real evidence. Not publicly, at least.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

BTW, the sources I built my previous post on were the easily obtainable books on the topic: Ghost Wars, The Looming Tower, The Bin Laden I Know, etc. Many of these books have been discussed in this forum in the past, and I've yet to see a public library that doesn't carry at least some of them.

 

[RedIbis]

Personally, I think you've raised a good point.

I would certainly like to see your evidence that the White House blocked attempts to investigate the Saudis, but if they did (either directly or indirectly), I would want to know about it.

Not that I think this points to a LIHOP or MIHOP scenario, but it could mean that some of the people behind the attack might have escaped justice because of political cowardice.

So the question is: Is there any evidence that members of the Saud family or elements within the Saudi government were involved, and if so, was everything done to investigate this evidence?

An excellent question, and probably better worded than mine. I look forward to the answer.

To reiterate an earlier point. Saudi involvement might be researched beyond the bin Laden connection. In fact, I didn't have OBL in mind when I posted the question.

 

[beachnut]

Why isn't Saudi involvement relevant to the discussion?

When the Saudi's find a terrorist, he confesses and is beheaded the next day. If any Saudi's were found to be complicit in the attacks the Saudi's would execute him. It is a hard place to be bad, you loose a hand for stealing, your life for just trying to kill someone.

You would loved to be water-boarded and sissy tortured by the USA vs being interrogated by the Saudis. Have you lived in Saudi Arabia?

How much research have you done on Saudi Arabia and 911?

 

[T.A.M.]

There's more to Saudi involvment than Bin laden.

Your question is a very legitimate one, and one that I have myself. I suspect, there was intentional overlooking of connections due to political relations, as well as likely oil based issues, with the Saudis. I have not read much on it, so my opinion is based on what I have read, and what I have seen on TV.

I suspect there were elements of Saudi intelligence involved in facilitating the attacks, either financial, and/or logistical. Pakistani involvement I feel is also likely, for the same (minus the oil) reasons.

TAM

 

[T.A.M.]

When the Saudi's find a terrorist, he confesses and is beheaded the next day. If any Saudi's were found to be complicit in the attacks the Saudi's would execute him. It is a hard place to be bad, you loose a hand for stealing, your life for just trying to kill someone.

You would loved to be water-boarded and sissy tortured by the USA vs being interrogated by the Saudis. Have you lived in Saudi Arabia?

How much research have you done on Saudi Arabia and 911?

Yes, but that said, I have no doubt that if elements of Saudi Intelligence were involved, (A) they would make sure that no one who would report them would know, and (B) if they were discovered, the authorities (of which they might be considered part of) might turn a blind eye to it, to keep the Saudi Royalty from international embarrassment.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

When the Saudi's find a terrorist, he confesses and is beheaded the next day. If any Saudi's were found to be complicit in the attacks the Saudi's would execute him. It is a hard place to be bad, you loose a hand for stealing, your life for just trying to kill someone.

You would loved to be water-boarded and sissy tortured by the USA vs being interrogated by the Saudis. Have you lived in Saudi Arabia?

How much research have you done on Saudi Arabia and 911?

Boy that is charming.

 

[Toke]

It is perfectly possible that OBL´s stated goal of getting the infidels out of the holy land/places is shared by alot of saudis.

It gets complicated when I read of how the radicals are a treath to Saudi itself and there are muttering of the king being an adulterous drunkard and not fit a defender of the holy places.

Anybody know a saudiologist?

 

[T.A.M.]

"The Looming Tower" is a good book for a quick education on some elements, especially as they relate to OBL and Al-Qaeda...highly recommended book.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

"The Looming Tower" is a good book for a quick education on some elements, especially as they relate to OBL and Al-Qaeda...highly recommended book.

TAM

Does it go into the strange case of Omar al-Bayoumi?