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Legalize, regulate, and tax marijuana?

Thunder

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what would be the result of the nation-wide legalization, regulation, and taxation of marijuana?

could marijuana be adjusted and regulated by the FDA so that it is much less potent and intoxicating?

how much federal and state tax revenue could be collected yearly?

how much regular and gang related crime would be reduced?
 
While I'm in favor of legalization, regulation, and even taxation, I'm going to predict that pot advocates are going to make a lot of far exaggerated benefits up to go along with the obvious ones.

I see it as an important and needed step to help out a lot of problems, but by no means a magic bullet.

Remember that drugs did empower a lot of gangs just like booze did, but they don't just disappear when you legalize the stuff. They move on to other rackets. Again, still important and necessary to do, but doesn't make gangs go away, especially in Mexico.
 
Remember that drugs did empower a lot of gangs just like booze did, but they don't just disappear when you legalize the stuff. They move on to other rackets. Again, still important and necessary to do, but doesn't make gangs go away, especially in Mexico.

I am in favor of the full legitimization of marijuana, but only if the drug gets watered down and regulated by the FDA.

Weed is just too strong, in its current form, to be smoked. Reduce it to 20% of its potency, and then yeah..legalize it.

It takes several drinks to become intoxicated from alchohol. Marijuana needs to be adjusted to have similar properties. I know that even one good hit, can seriously effect you and render you useless for a few hours.
 
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I'm sure the market has a wide verity of 'flavors' and potency, just like for alcohol. I'm assuming that's what all the frankly stupid names are about.
 
I'm sure the market has a wide verity of 'flavors' and potency, just like for alcohol. I'm assuming that's what all the frankly stupid names are about.

i'll ask my buddy. :)

though I really doubt there are any super non-potent versions of weed.
 
Weed is just too strong, in its current form, to be smoked. Reduce it to 20% of its potency, and then yeah..legalize it.

It takes several drinks to become intoxicated from alchohol. Marijuana needs to be adjusted to have similar properties. I know that even one good hit, can seriously effect you and render you useless for a few hours.

though I really doubt there are any super non-potent versions of weed.

Don't talk about subjects you have no knowledge of as if you are an authority.

The regulation and taxation of cannabis as a recreational drug would conservatively bring in a few 10s of billions in tax revenue. It would also save heaps more. But it wouldn't be a cure for economic ailments. Merely a nice bonus for the taxman and a good employment generator.
 
Potent = good

You can go to the store and get a light beer or grain alcohol... your choice... are those extremely high proof alcohols "too intoxicating" ? do we need the FDA to regulate them? maybe we should think of the children...

Potent weed is a Good thing. Makes it easier to titrate your dosage... if you get stoned off your arse with a whole joint maybe you should just take one toke, and then maybe wait a half hour and decide if you need more...

Potent weed is a Good thing. It means your putting less burnt plant matter into your lungs (which is never optimal).

Potent weed is a Good thing. Its easier on your wallet as you buy Less of it.

This "too powerful" argument is silly and not very well thought out.
 
Not to mention not backed by evidence. The average thc content of modern varieties is within similar bounds as older ones, it's just that the highest potency varieties have started to really shine with modern breeding and a burgeoning professional industry.

And Thunder, I made that comments because you didn't preface it as opinion but fact. And the opinions you offered are woefully misinformed. Education is the only way we can change the present insanity. Passing on uninformed opinion as fact only makes things worse.
 
I have long advocated legalizing it. As someone said, it's not a magic bullet, but the benefits are many.

medicinal, having the proper scientists research its various areas of effectiveness and come up with actual medicines. I suspect that whatever ailment it is being sold for as by smoking it could probably be administered by a type of derivative that would be more efficient and wouldn’t be as much fun as smoking it. Don’t know if this would actually produce patentable products for Big Pharma to make money on or not, but it least it would be a boon to some degree for the people.

Recreational - When people say that the price would go down because production costs would go down are right, but the way I would address that is to keep the price per oz. pretty much the same as now (assume $200 per oz.). In return you would give the consumer an overall better end product in that it would come in all the flavors as now and more. Everything you bought would be perfectly manicured with no pieces of unnecessary stemage/little leaves, year around supply, never a drought. It would be sold from grams on up with the smaller units being charged more per unit that larger purchases.

Now, to counteract someone selling it illegally for less money I would deal with it this way: make the laws similar to the ‘moonshine laws’. By law, you would be able to grow enough for your own consumption (3-5lbs. per yr.), but would face stiff penalties for selling your own homemade ‘shine. Just like they have it for hard liquor today controlled by the ATF.

commercial - http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/popmech1.htm

NEW BILLION-DOLLAR CROP
Popular Mechanics
February, 1938

"AMERICAN farmers are promised a new cash crop with an annual value of several hundred million dollars, all because a machine has been invented which solves a problem more than 6,000 years old (decorticator/hemp thrasher)…

…it will displace imports of raw material and manufactured products produced by underpaid coolie and peasant labor and it will provide thousands of jobs for American workers throughout the land.

…It is used to produce more than 5,000 textile products, ranging from rope to fine laces, and the woody "hurds" remaining after the fiber has been removed contain more than seventy-seven per cent cellulose, and can be used to produce more than 25,000 products, ranging from dynamite to Cellophane.

…producing fiber at a manufacturing cost of half a cent a pound, and are finding a profitable market for the rest of the stalk. Machine operators are making a good profit in competition with coolie-produced foreign fiber while paying farmers fifteen dollars a ton for hemp as it comes from the field.

…Thousands of tons of hemp hurds are used every year by one large powder company for the manufacture of dynamite and TNT. A large paper company, which has been paying more than a million dollars a year in duties on foreign-made cigarette papers, now is manufacturing these papers from American hemp grown in Minnesota. A new factory in Illinois is producing fine bond papers from hemp. The natural materials in hemp make it an economical source of pulp for any grade of paper manufactured, and the high percentage of alpha cellulose promises an unlimited supply of raw material for the thousands of cellulose products our chemists have developed.

…Our imports of foreign fabrics and fibers average about $200,000,000 per year; in raw fibers alone we imported over $50,000,000 in the first six months of 1937. All of this income can be made available for Americans.
…The paper industry offers even greater possibilities. As an industry it amounts to over $1,000,000,000 a year, and of that eighty per cent is imported. But hemp will produce every grade of paper, and government figures estimate that 10,000 acres devoted to hemp will produce as much paper as 40,000 acres of average pulp land."


As you can see from the data from above, we are talking about some big, big money and significant positive impact on the economy and society.

The point is that the legal sale of cannabis, if structured properly, would create huge profit margins that would help the economy. You would save big bucks by eliminating that part of the budget of the ‘War on Drugs’. You would also free up the prison systems by releasing the small quantity user type prisoners. (which may cause more unemployment, I don’t know. Thoughts?)
 
If alcohol were invented today, it would be illegal.

And if pigs farted gold we'd all be swineherds. But they don't, so we aren't, and thus it doesn't really make much sense to discuss it.

What is that supposed to mean anyway?
 
And if pigs farted gold we'd all be swineherds. But they don't, so we aren't, and thus it doesn't really make much sense to discuss it.

What is that supposed to mean anyway?
:D The point is that alcohol is legal, and destroys more lives and livelihoods than pot ever has. I take a utilitarian view on prohibition. The thing that demonstrably does more harm is legal and freely available, while the thing that demonstrably does less harm can put you in jail.

In case you missed it, yes. Legalise, regulate and tax marijuana.
 
And alcohol would and has destroyed more lives under prohibition. So we ultimately agree that even if alcohol was recognized as the harmful drug it can be, making it illegal wouldn't make it go away or even significantly reduce the numbers if users long term.

I'm sorry if I seem a little edgy on this subject, AWP, I constantly see people making smart ass uneducated comments like thunders with little relation to the real world and tend to jump on them when I see them.

Prohibition has not, does not and will not ever work as a method of reducing harm and drug use rates in society, no matter what the substance is. Humans are too determined to get wasted for it to work.
 
It's called industrial hemp.


There's also "ditch weed", as in ... you can pull over to the side of the road, roll down your window, and yank it out of the ditch.

The DEA wisely (:rolleyes:) devotes millions of dollars every year for programs to eradicate this immensely dangerous feral marijuana, occasionally described as, "You could smoke a joint the size of a telephone pole, and all you'd get would be a headache and a sore throat."

There's a close tie-in between that and industrial hemp, since most of it is the heritage of various past government war efforts encouraging hemp cultivation as a precaution to insure a supply of fiber for rope.

Completely aside from its applications as a medicine and its attraction as a recreational substance the hemp family has a wide range of very practical uses. Among the few things which are actually more stupid than the DEA's insistence on criminalizing marijuana for recreational use is its adamancy that all strains of hemp are identically dangerous, and that the commercial benefit of any of them is far outweighed by the "slippery slope" danger of allowing the production of non-potent variants.

Even our Founding Fathers grew hemp for fiber, although if memory serves there was some mention in T. Jefferson's records about insuring that some of the female plants were segregated from the males so that they wouldn't go to seed ...

Oh. My.

Since there's only one horticultural goal I can think of for that practice it may be that the DEA was not so mistaken after all.

:D
 
I am in favor of the full legitimization of marijuana, but only if the drug gets watered down and regulated by the FDA.

Weed is just too strong, in its current form, to be smoked. Reduce it to 20% of its potency, and then yeah..legalize it.

It takes several drinks to become intoxicated from alchohol. Marijuana needs to be adjusted to have similar properties. I know that even one good hit, can seriously effect you and render you useless for a few hours.

Dude, I have just learned on these boards that in the US, one can buy 95% alcohol for CONSUMPTION.
In the coffee shops in the Netherlands you can buy a variety of weeds and they vary in strength.

Leave that stuff to market forces. (although the super-strong alcohol is prohibited in many states)

It is important that people know what they buy and ingest. If one were to smoke a spliff made with the feared Super Skunk, whilst thinking it was just a normal strength joint, your night would be ruined.
The equivalent of drinking three beers and then finding out you've just downed three full beer glasses of Vodka.
With one important difference: You'll wake up on the couch, not in the intensive care unit.
 
And alcohol would and has destroyed more lives under prohibition. So we ultimately agree that even if alcohol was recognized as the harmful drug it can be, making it illegal wouldn't make it go away or even significantly reduce the numbers if users long term.

I'm sorry if I seem a little edgy on this subject, AWP, I constantly see people making smart ass uneducated comments like thunders with little relation to the real world and tend to jump on them when I see them.

Prohibition has not, does not and will not ever work as a method of reducing harm and drug use rates in society, no matter what the substance is. Humans are too determined to get wasted for it to work.
Ah, I see I have been misunderstood. I am not in favour of prohibition - of any kind. I was just pointing out the absurdity of prohibiting the less-harmful substance while arguing against prohibition of either.
 
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No prob AWP, not trying to rag on you and again im sorry if it seems that way. But I would only point out that to a prohibitionist or even someone unsure about the merits of drug regulation might see that as an argument that alcohol should be banned as well. ;)

Using the hypocrisy of the present regime is useful to show how ridiculous it is, but it can also make some wonder if the answer isn't less, but more prohibition. Many point to places like Singapore and Thailand with hyperactive drug policies which mandate death for traffickers and ask "well if it works there why not try it here?" Of course, they don't actually think such arguments through, let alone think about the fact that harsh as these policies are, if they worked they wouldnt be arresting anyone for crimes they didn't commit because the penalty was too high. ;)

Unfortunately the public has had a good 80 years of Prohibitionist temperance movement inspired propaganda (with a somewhat more concerted effort attached from the late 60s onwards) which has left their views of illicit drugs so skewed it will take a significant effort to undo. I don't think hearing "well alcohol is so bad they would ban it if we invented it" helps the deprogramming process in those who never think about such things terribly deeply anyway. Note that's what they hear, but not what you actually said. This is a common problem with the formulation of policy in this field, with both sides tending to talk to their own audiences straight past each other.

And thunder, I hope this discussion of your misconceptions about cannabis makes you think about what youre saying before you say it. There has always been cannabis varieties of varying potency, effect, flavour, aroma and colour. There are some which will sit you down shut you up and make you dribble a bit while watching the tube, and others which only give you a light headed feeling and a strange desire to do all the housework. We have been selecting and actively influencing this plant since essentially the dawn of civilisation. If the market wants "mild" weed it will be provided. Given that there are significant benefits to a stronger thc content per weight (others above have discussed these reasons) it seems that your concerns about uberweed are somewhat naive.

Bit that's enough ragging on everyone who generally or more specifically agrees with a regulated cannabis market. Where have all the prohibitionists gone when you want to write long posts on your iPhone after blazing up some California orange? :p

Prop 19 vote is very close now. Hopefully the voters will make the right choice.
 

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