Lee Bollinger rips Ahmadinejad a new one.

[Cello Man]

...Fortunately, Ahmadinejad squandered his martyr-card on holocaust denial, 9/11 conspiracies and homophobia.

Exactly. He was treated rudely by any standard, but his past actions and apparent future plans outweigh the importance of diplomatic civility. Surely Ahmadinejad had to expect this kind of reception anyway.

I still feel that respect is something that has to be earned, even from a head of state. If anything, I feel that leaders should have to work harder than anybody to earn that respect. They have so much more to be accountable for than a common citizen, and I see no point in putting on a disingenuous show of being nice to someone who doesn't deserve it.

I'm not saying we should be hostile to any country who doesn't just kiss the USA's feet. But if they go out of their way to be a thorn in our side then I think that the pleasantries of civil diplomacy should be tossed aside in favor of confronting the ideas of dangerous people.

 

[Cello Man]

Qualification:

I could be completely wrong about all this. The above is simply the ranting of a late twenty something who still has a shred of idealism somewhere deep down.

 

[RandFan]

And do you think they were happy that, having invited him, Bollinger rhetorically spat in his face?

Look, if you invite someone to your university, you treat him with hospitality. Bollinger's actions did not reflect well on Columbia University. Makes me glad I went to Penn.

This is not an easy one for me. What respect does one deserve for speaking? Would we accord everyone equal respect? Perhaps the sin is inviting Ahmadinejad to speak and then attacking him.

I don't deny that you have a valid point. My mind's just not made up.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I could be completely wrong about all this. The above is simply the ranting of a late twenty something who still has a shred of idealism somewhere deep down.

Don't worry, you'll grow out of it, in time.

(J/K )

DR

 

[JoeEllison]

Qualification:

I could be completely wrong about all this. The above is simply the ranting of a late twenty something who still has a shred of idealism somewhere deep down.

I'd agree with you. You really could be completely wrong...

I think the place where we disagree is that you see the behavior of a college official as being based on the person being dealt with. From that position, you're right. Ahmadinejad seems to come off as a jerk, and Iran isn't a pleasant vacation spot.

I see it slightly differently. I see Bollinger's position dictating his words and actions. In that position, no matter who is taking the stage, his behavior should be the same.

Plus, on a more personal level, I feel that we should base our behavior on who WE are, and not who we're dealing with. If someone feels like being polite is a virtue, then they should hold to that value because it is the right thing to do, and not just when it is easy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

You know what else? Now, he gets to go home and dismiss American objections to his words, and Bollinger gave him the means to do it. He really CAN say that he was set up, that he was not given a fair forum, and that the entire thing was an expression of Western arrogance and even bigotry...not because it is true, but because Bollinger gave him enough of a soundbite to make it seem true.

Not saying that he wouldn't have anyways, but why give him a good excuse?

Well put, Joe. Bollinger threw away four aces to Mahmoud's pair of treys. He set up a great chance for the Mahmoud to look the fool, and then blew it.

Something about keeping the moral high ground was missed.

DR

 

[RandFan]

Plus, on a more personal level, I feel that we should base our behavior on who WE are, and not who we're dealing with. If someone feels like being polite is a virtue, then they should hold to that value because it is the right thing to do, and not just when it is easy.

? What? I'm guessing that I'm missing somethiing. Are you suggesting that we must always be polite or just in certain situations? Much if not most of politica dicourse is not polite.

 

[Dr Adequate]

I'm curious, are conservatives monolithic?

No --- they're neolithic.

Thank you, I'll be here all epoch. Try the aurochs.

 

[WildCat]

Does anyone know if Bollinger's remarks were even broadcast in Iran, or reported in the media?

 

[Dr Adequate]

Does anyone know if Bollinger's remarks were even broadcast in Iran, or reported in the media?

They were, and the Iranians are, as you would expect, going ape.

"The chancellors of seven Iranian universities issued a letter on Tuesday to Bollinger saying his statements were "deeply shameful" ..."

---

I'm afraid it looks as though those pesky liberals are right. Again.

 

[JoeEllison]

? What? I'm guessing that I'm missing somethiing. Are you suggesting that we must always be polite or just in certain situations? Much if not most of politica dicourse is not polite.

Not me. I'm saying that if you're in a situation where politeness is called for, it is called for when dealing with ANYONE, not just the people you like. Introducing a guest is one of those situations. If Bollinger couldn't do it, he should have found someone who could.

 

[WildCat]

They were, and the Iranians are, as you would expect, going ape.

"The chancellors of seven Iranian universities issued a letter on Tuesday to Bollinger saying his statements were "deeply shameful" ..."

Wow, the chancellors of 7 universities in Iran think Bollinger is a member of the US government... how disappointed they must be that their scheduled propaganda film "US Liberals Cheer Dear Leader" got shelved as reality rudely intruded onto the set. Not even the liberals are buying what Ahmadinejad is selling these days.

 

[corplinx]

Unless leaders of governments and institutions use the opportunity to shame bad behavior, some of these head-up-butt leaders may not realize what the world really thinks.

Reagan should have stood before the Berlin wall and said "I'm glad I could be with you here today. This wall sure is swell."

 

[corplinx]

I also hope that enough buzz about mistreatment of gays in Iran will move the world opinion a few notches closer to treating gays equally.

 

[WildCat]

Not me. I'm saying that if you're in a situation where politeness is called for, it is called for when dealing with ANYONE, not just the people you like. Introducing a guest is one of those situations. If Bollinger couldn't do it, he should have found someone who could.

Bollinger is a private citizen, not a diplomatic representative of the US government. Ahmadinejad is a big boy, if he wants to go out in the big-boy world of the west where people are allowed to speak their minds he should fully expect to be challenged on his agenda of hate, division, and brutality. He won't hear that criticism at the UN, or on his next stop in Venezuela where he will be figuratively fellated by Hugo Chavez. Bollinger saw his opportunity and took it, as I would hope any other private citizen would do if given the chance.

 

[JoeEllison]

Bollinger is a private citizen, not a diplomatic representative of the US government. Ahmadinejad is a big boy, if he wants to go out in the big-boy world of the west where people are allowed to speak their minds he should fully expect to be challenged on his agenda of hate, division, and brutality. He won't hear that criticism at the UN, or on his next stop in Venezuela where he will be figuratively fellated by Hugo Chavez. Bollinger saw his opportunity and took it, as I would hope any other private citizen would do if given the chance.

You've completely missed the point, and I must assume that it was intentional.

Pick your favorite person. Would it have been ok for Bollinger to use that moment to insult your mom?

 

[JoeEllison]

Wow, the chancellors of 7 universities in Iran think Bollinger is a member of the US government... how disappointed they must be that their scheduled propaganda film "US Liberals Cheer Dear Leader" got shelved as reality rudely intruded onto the set. Not even the liberals are buying what Ahmadinejad is selling these days.

Oh, you're one of those right-wing anti-reality people. Never mind.

 

[WildCat]

You've completely missed the point, and I must assume that it was intentional.

Pick your favorite person. Would it have been ok for Bollinger to use that moment to insult your mom?

If my mom was the (figurative) leader of a country that supports and funds terrorism, executes homosexuals, denies the holocaust, arrests women for wearing makeup, stones rape victims to death, etc etc, sure go at it.

And I don't miss the point - it sure won't hurt Iranians to know how absolutely bat-guano crazy the civilized world thinks they are. They can kick, scream, and howl all they want about it.

 

[WildCat]

Oh, you're one of those right-wing anti-reality people. Never mind.

The reality is Ahmadinejad thought he could score a propaganda coup by going to an American university campus to speak, where all the Bush-hating students and faculty would cheer him on and embarrass Bush in his own country. Didn't quite work out according to the script.

 

[dudalb]

Oh, you're one of those right-wing anti-reality people. Never mind.

Joe Ellison's habit of accusing anybody who disagrees with him of being "chilidish" and/or not seeing reality is really getting old.