PogoPedant
Muse
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
- Messages
- 763
Not that I have anything to add, I just think such wise words shouldn't go without notice. It's too fine a line between being intolerant to intolerance and just plain being intolerant.
corplinx
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 8,952
What I was able to ascertain from a french friend was that he is anti-gay because of recommending quarantining people with aids back in _1987_ and he is racist/nazi/etc because France has an immigration problem and he wants to do something about it.
And the fact that he is supposedly an a-hole means noone defends him against the more outrageous attacks against seeing as how nobody wants to be seen defending a nazi/racist/anti-gay/a-hole.
At least to me, it seems like much of the same b*lls**t we have in the US.
I think the reason he was so demonized in France is he wanted to do things like, cut government mandated vacation from 5 weeks to 4 weeks to start fixing the unemployment and productivity problems. My french fried was scream "social regression!" at this notion.
And the fact that he is supposedly an a-hole means noone defends him against the more outrageous attacks against seeing as how nobody wants to be seen defending a nazi/racist/anti-gay/a-hole.
At least to me, it seems like much of the same b*lls**t we have in the US.
I think the reason he was so demonized in France is he wanted to do things like, cut government mandated vacation from 5 weeks to 4 weeks to start fixing the unemployment and productivity problems. My french fried was scream "social regression!" at this notion.
corplinx
JREF Kid
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 8,952
geni said:
Pretend I don't keep track of french politics. Now, I do know that France is a cultural protectionist sort of country. Unlike America, France has a culture and national identity and wants to preserve it. Now, does Le Pen truely believe French genes are superior to others? He just visited the UK, was it to look at the inferior islanders and scoff at them? Are his immigration ideas based on believing that the islamic northern african influx are lesser peoples or that they dilute the french culture and compete for jobs in a country with perpetually bad unemployment?
Is the man really a racist or is it just shrill rhetoric?
Jaggy Bunnet
Philosopher
- Joined
- May 16, 2003
- Messages
- 6,241
corplinx said:
Quote from further up the thread, attributed to Le Pen:
"There are differences between the races. . .there are differences in the genes. . ."
Sounds like "lesser peoples" to me.
Some more from Wikipedia, about Le Pen's party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Front_(France) ):
Have a look at the cartoon on that manifesto page. The caption reads "Each year, 25,000 rich people leave France", and the speech bubble reads "Fortunately, we're here to replace them". Is it me, or are the faces on the cartoons just a wee bit, well, caricaturish?
A wee look at their manifesto (http://www.frontnational.com/doc_id_immigration.php) turns up phrases like "Immigration, a mortal threat for France and the French" and "No to the Islamisation of France!", and a pledge to "control foreign associations".
Have a look at the cartoon on that manifesto page. The caption reads "Each year, 25,000 rich people leave France", and the speech bubble reads "Fortunately, we're here to replace them". Is it me, or are the faces on the cartoons just a wee bit, well, caricaturish?
Hi there. 
As I live in France, I'd like to make a few remarks about Le Pen.
"15% of the French vote for Le Pen, so 15% of the French are neonazis."
Those who reason like that show their deep misunderstanding of the French society (and don't take abstaining into account).
Actually, only a small circle among Le Pen's voters are real fascists. The other are people :
- who feel they are being left by the wayside, they are abandoned by the modern world, by globalization,... The National Front now plays the role of the Communist Party.
- who are exasperated by immigration problems, which are very accute in France : juvenile delinquency, criminality, rejection of France by some second- or third-generation immigrants,... For instance, nobody in France has forgotten that televised France-Algeria soccer match in Paris (october 2001), when French-born North Africans booed the French national anthem (like they were used to) and invaded the pitch when France scored a goal. Hundreds of riot policemen had to step in. They received bottles and other such stuff, and the match had to be abandoned.
The NF is a xenophobic, populist, nationalist party, but most of Le Pen's voters aren't nazis. They are only xenophobic : they reject all immigrants and blame them for all their problems, but they don't want to exterminate anybody. There is no SA or SS parade in France ! ...but there are fears, rejections, ressentments, exasperation, like in other European countries such as Switzerland, Netherlands or Belgium... and those fears crystallize into the NF vote. NF voters have a tendancy to forget Le Pen's slips and past : they regard him as a firm-handed man and as the only one who can solve their problems.
In addition to that, the NF has for years endeavoured to become a "respectable" party : no more slips, no more openly racist speeches,... It tries and look like an ordinary "democratic" political party, hence his recent results. Of course, it still brings shame upon us (the French people), but likening Le Pen to Hitler isn't justified, and likening Le Pen's voters to Hitler is a perfect nonsense.
As I live in France, I'd like to make a few remarks about Le Pen.
"15% of the French vote for Le Pen, so 15% of the French are neonazis."
Those who reason like that show their deep misunderstanding of the French society (and don't take abstaining into account).
Actually, only a small circle among Le Pen's voters are real fascists. The other are people :
- who feel they are being left by the wayside, they are abandoned by the modern world, by globalization,... The National Front now plays the role of the Communist Party.
- who are exasperated by immigration problems, which are very accute in France : juvenile delinquency, criminality, rejection of France by some second- or third-generation immigrants,... For instance, nobody in France has forgotten that televised France-Algeria soccer match in Paris (october 2001), when French-born North Africans booed the French national anthem (like they were used to) and invaded the pitch when France scored a goal. Hundreds of riot policemen had to step in. They received bottles and other such stuff, and the match had to be abandoned.
The NF is a xenophobic, populist, nationalist party, but most of Le Pen's voters aren't nazis. They are only xenophobic : they reject all immigrants and blame them for all their problems, but they don't want to exterminate anybody. There is no SA or SS parade in France ! ...but there are fears, rejections, ressentments, exasperation, like in other European countries such as Switzerland, Netherlands or Belgium... and those fears crystallize into the NF vote. NF voters have a tendancy to forget Le Pen's slips and past : they regard him as a firm-handed man and as the only one who can solve their problems.
In addition to that, the NF has for years endeavoured to become a "respectable" party : no more slips, no more openly racist speeches,... It tries and look like an ordinary "democratic" political party, hence his recent results. Of course, it still brings shame upon us (the French people), but likening Le Pen to Hitler isn't justified, and likening Le Pen's voters to Hitler is a perfect nonsense.
Jon_in_london
Illuminator
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2002
- Messages
- 4,989
Le Pen beat up an MEP?
MY HERO!!
MY HERO!!
Jon_in_london
Illuminator
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2002
- Messages
- 4,989
Jaggy Bunnet said:
Is it your position that there is no genetic difference between 'the races'?
Suppose it just comes down to a good sun-tan eh?