LDS

[Janadele]

How do you reconcile this with where Eve came from in the other part of Genesis?

Please explain.

 

[kerikiwi]

Please explain.

I think it is you who should explain the contradiction and how you reconcile it

 

[Janadele]

What contradiction?

 

[jsfisher]

What contradiction?

I believe the reference was to the two different creation stories contained in Genesis.

 

[Janadele]

Perhaps slyjoe could quote the Scriptures he refers to.

 

[halleyscomet]

Could you explain how a hoax can be considered sacred and inspired?

I think her issues go well beyond denial. I don't think she's capable of understanding or even considering that the Book of Abraham was not translated from the texts Smith claimed were the source. This is not a refusal to consider the hard questions about her faith. She isn't evading our questions. She's answering them as completely and honestly as she is capable. Her thinking about her faith does not go beyond listening to the elders above her and saying "Okey dokey, whatever you say," and cheerfully walking away having accepted their words without question.

We have spent this entire thread discussing meat with someone whose own church has clearly decided will never do more than sip watered down skim milk.

 

[Craig4]

On the contrary Craig, The Book of Abraham as a part of the Pearl of Great Price is Sacred and Inspired Scripture.
http://www.lds.org/manual/the-pearl-of-great-price-teacher-manual
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp?lang=eng

But there is nothing in the BoA that that relates to the original document. The document is a funerary text and makes no mention of anything in the BoA. As an aside, this would be the point I made to two Mormon missionaries recently that left them speechless and one hopes questioning their beliefs.

 

[MIKILLINI]

Oh no, no, no. You see, we chose this! The spirits that chose another path in the spirit world (ie to follow Satan) didn't come here to earth. We suffering souls are lucky!!

There was a musical called My Turn on Earth that I grew up listening to. One of the songs puts it in good context for you if you're interested in listening to it.

Never heard this one, but the premise is very similar to others i have heard before.

That one really confused me when I was a kid, b/c I knew I had chosen Jesus' plan since I was here on earth

Not many liked the questions I asked about the Bible;

1. Why didn't God tell Adam & Eve told about the snake?

2. Why would a loving, caring God make suffering, death & eternal punishment the consequences of disobeying him when, at the time, Adam & Eve had no concept of right or wrong; Not knowing good or evil?

3.Why go through with this wacky scenario when it was set up to fail? So God could send himself as a sacrifice for breaking his rules: Even knowing ahead of time the rules would be broken?

That whole situation seemed like such a sadistic process just to gain worship.

 

[Janadele]

There is no mystery.
http://www.lds.org/manual/jesus-the-christ/chapter-1?lang=eng
Jesus The Christ by James E. Talmage contains all the answers.

 

[Pixel42]

Perhaps slyjoe could quote the Scriptures he refers to.

Genesis 1:27 says Eve was created at the same time as Adam, Genesis 2:20-22 says she was created after Adam and all the animals were created. Just one of many differences between the two different stories of creation in Genesis.

 

[pakeha]

Thank you for your honesty. You chose to be an atheist, an act some on this forum believe is an impossibility.

Still dodging a discussion of the fraudulent origins of the BoA, skyrider44?
Why?

Could you explain how a hoax can be considered sacred and inspired?

I think her issues go well beyond denial. I don't think she's capable of understanding or even considering that the Book of Abraham was not translated from the texts Smith claimed were the source. This is not a refusal to consider the hard questions about her faith. She isn't evading our questions. She's answering them as completely and honestly as she is capable. Her thinking about her faith does not go beyond listening to the elders above her and saying "Okey dokey, whatever you say," and cheerfully walking away having accepted their words without question.

We have spent this entire thread discussing meat with someone whose own church has clearly decided will never do more than sip watered down skim milk.

You may well be right, halleyscomet.
To date, no Morman posting on this thread has discussed the BoA except to say their elders think it's dinkum.
And that it has spiritual insights , as though that justified the deliberate misrepresentation of a religious text of another culture.

But there is nothing in the BoA that that relates to the original document. The document is a funerary text and makes no mention of anything in the BoA. As an aside, this would be the point I made to two Mormon missionaries recently that left them speechless and one hopes questioning their beliefs.

Well done, Craig4. Here's hoping your point made those people think about just what they were trying to sell you.

 

[RandFan]

But there is nothing in the BoA that that relates to the original document. The document is a funerary text and makes no mention of anything in the BoA. As an aside, this would be the point I made to two Mormon missionaries recently that left them speechless and one hopes questioning their beliefs.

And it puts the Egyptians in a negative light. The BoA could be called anti-Egyptian literature. It makes no sense that they would include something that attacks their beliefs with sacred writings. To what end?

And after all of the other funery texts that have been found, this is the only one that purports to have this sacrilegious text. It just does not have the ring of truth.

 

[joobz]

Jandele and skyrider, lets say a Muslim wa trying to convince you of the truth of Islam and told you of an amazing book that was discovered and translated by Mohammed. Then, lets say you found out that modern scholars identified the translation as being fake. That the original text was actually a roman lunch menu. What would you think?

Would you think that the scholars were liars or wrong? Dont forget that you do not need to rely on their expertise. rather, you could learn how to read latin and confirm for yourself what the translation says.
Would you think that the translation by Mohammed was fake? What would think such a revelation would say about Mohammed?

 

[Janadele]

Jeff Lindsay has interesting observations on the Book of Abraham at the following links:

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml Part 1

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham2.shtml Part 2

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/boa.shtml Part 3

The FAIR Wiki:
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Abraham/Evidence_for_antiquity

Kerry Shirts' Book of Abraham articles:
http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/papyri.htm

KERRY SHIRTS ON THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM VIDEO:
http://www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/lostbook.htm

"The Jewish Origin of the Book of Abraham" by Jonathan Moyer, a scholarly paper exploring the ancient Jewish roots of the Book of Abraham:
http://www.hains.net/articles/moyer/jewishbookofabraham.html

The Book of Abraham is well worth the read.

 

[Janadele]

Genesis 1:27 says Eve was created at the same time as Adam, Genesis 2:20-22 says she was created after Adam and all the animals were created.

Genesis 1:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The above is stating the fact that male and female were created, not how or when they were.
Adam and Eve were already valiant as disembodied Spirits in the pre mortal existance. Adam was Michael the Archangel .

Below, is stating how the pre mortal Spirit of Adam and Eve became embodied:

Genesis 2:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

 

[joobz]

The Book of Abraham is well worth the read.

Did you not read my question above? It is a legitimate one.

 

[Janadele]

Yes I did read your question joobz.

 

[Akhenaten]

Jeff Lindsay has interesting observations on the Book of Abraham at the following links:

<snip>

No, he has reams of apologetic claptrap.

Kerry Shirts' Book of Abraham articles:


<snip>

Oh goody. Pages full of links to even more reams of apologetic claptrap.

"The Jewish Origin of the Book of Abraham" by Jonathan Moyer, a scholarly paper exploring the ancient Jewish roots of the Book of Abraham:

Jewish roots of a fake version of an ancient Egyptian document?

You've got to be kidding.

The Book of Abraham is well worth the read.

Only if one is interested in discovering the extremities of human gullibility.

 

[Rincewind]

Genesis 1:
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The above is stating the fact that male and female were created, not how or when they were.
Adam and Eve were already valiant as disembodied Spirits in the pre mortal existance. Adam was Michael the Archangel .

Below, is stating how the pre mortal Spirit of Adam and Eve became embodied:

Genesis 2:
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

So that means that men have one fewer rib than women?

 

[Cleon]

The Book of Abraham is well worth the read.

All of those arguments are simply attempts to read the English text and try to connect it to ancient societies. As "evidence" it might be convincing to you and skyrider, but for those of us outside the Church it's simply eye-rolling nonsense.

The fact remains that all evidence points to the Book of Abraham as being a work of fraud. Smith's explanation/"translation" of the papyrus is simply wrong, and all the contextual analysis in the world won't make up for that.