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In my opinion all these variations on the bible-singular deity teaching should tell you something about the religion itself and the non-satisfaction people fell toward it in general.
 
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Janadele said:
As the article correctly stated: LDS Missionaries are easily identified by their distinctive name tags... also, they do not knock on doors at that time.
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Janadele, as you are clearly concerned about posts addressing the topic of "LDS", would you kindly answer the outstanding questions in this thread, despite the answers making you uncomfortable?

Would you like to start with an explanation about the descent of native Americans? Alternatively, you could explain how an Egyptian funerary text became a source of Mormon scripture?

I'm sure you want to be honest and on topic.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Janadele, as you are clearly concerned about posts addressing the topic of "LDS", would you kindly answer the outstanding questions in this thread, despite the answers making you uncomfortable?

Would you like to start with an explanation about the descent of native Americans? Alternatively, you could explain how an Egyptian funerary text became a source of Mormon scripture?

I'm sure you want to be honest and on topic.
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There are a host of other on-topic questions you have ignored, also.

Horses?
Barley?
Domestic Cattle?
Steelmaking?

(Janadele, if you are interested, consider reading 1491, by Charles C. Mann.)
 
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Janadele -

What does your conscience say about avoiding honest realistic facts?

Isn't that like going against the very Spirit you believe you represent?

How do you think you are doing, as far as representing said Spirit?

(I am going to go out on a limb here, and predict you won't answer these questions. I do "hope" you will, though.)
 
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deaman said:
What does your conscience say about avoiding honest realistic facts?
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When I was on my mission a companion told me about Lying for the Lord. Deception is okay if it saves souls.

Janadelle, do you reject the claim that Joseph Smith was deceptive just as Nephi was deceptive when he killed Laban and took the brass plates? If not, then do you believe that lying for the lord is an acceptable practice under certain circumstances?
 
RandFan said:
When I was on my mission a companion told me about Lying for the Lord. Deception is okay if it saves souls.

Janadelle, do you reject the claim that Joseph Smith was deceptive just as Nephi was deceptive when he killed Laban and took the brass plates? If not, then do you believe that lying for the lord is an acceptable practice under certain circumstances?
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A very useful concept. I recall a couple of decades ago the Ayatollah Khomeini defended it eloquently.
 
jasonpatterson said:
Why is there a desire among the LDS to label themselves as christian, specifically? Why not aim for the vastly more reasonable label of a fourth Abrahamic religion?
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LDS did not/do not arbitrarily "desire . . . to label themselves as Christian." The revelations received by Joseph Smith make it clear that LDS are followers of Christ.

Can you name even one ordinance conducted by members of the LDS Church that is not performed under the authority of Jesus Christ? Child blessings, baptism, conferring the priesthoods and ordaining to offices therein, marriage, opening and closing prayers for meetings, administering to the sick, bearing testimony, temple ordinances, missionary farewells, setting members apart to serve in disparate positions, blessings on the food, funeral services, dedicating graves, releasing a terminally ill person, dedicating temples and ward houses, fasting (ends with a prayer)--and more.

The fact is, Christ is the centerpiece of LDS worship. The church's name alone should tell you that.
 
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skyrider44 said:
LDS did not/do not arbitrarily "desire . . . to label themselves as Christian." The revelations received by Joseph Smith make it clear that LDS are followers of Christ.
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Yep, arbitrary desire. Joe made it all up out of a hat.

skyrider44 said:
Can you name even one ordinance conducted by members of the LDS Church that is not performed under the authority of Jesus Christ? Child blessings, baptism, conferring the priesthoods and ordaining to offices therein, marriage, opening and closing prayers for meetings, administering to the sick, bearing testimony, temple ordinances, missionary farewells, setting members apart to serve in disparate positions, blessings on the food, funeral services, dedicating graves, releasing a terminally ill person, dedicating temples and ward houses, fasting (ends with a prayer)--and more.
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You have been provided with a bucket load in this very thread. Do you want some more?
skyrider44 said:
The fact is, Christ is the centerpiece of LDS worship. Its name alone should tell you that.
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Except he never existed. Bit of a hole in your position there, no?
 
skyrider44 said:
LDS did not/do not arbitrarily "desire . . . to label themselves as Christian." The revelations received by Joseph Smith make it clear that LDS are followers of Christ.

Can you name even one ordinance conducted by members of the LDS Church that is not performed under the authority of Jesus Christ? Child blessings, baptism, conferring the priesthoods and ordaining to offices therein, marriage, opening and closing prayers for meetings, administering to the sick, bearing testimony, temple ordinances, missionary farewells, setting members apart to serve in disparate positions, blessings on the food, funeral services, dedicating graves, releasing a terminally ill person, dedicating temples and ward houses, fasting (ends with a prayer)--and more.

The fact is, Christ is the centerpiece of LDS worship. The church's name alone should tell you that.
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Seems to me that Joe Smith is the centerpiece of LDS life.
 
skyrider44 said:
LDS did not/do not arbitrarily "desire . . . to label themselves as Christian." The revelations received by Joseph Smith make it clear that LDS are followers of Christ.

Can you name even one ordinance conducted by members of the LDS Church that is not performed under the authority of Jesus Christ? Child blessings, baptism, conferring the priesthoods and ordaining to offices therein, marriage, opening and closing prayers for meetings, administering to the sick, bearing testimony, temple ordinances, missionary farewells, setting members apart to serve in disparate positions, blessings on the food, funeral services, dedicating graves, releasing a terminally ill person, dedicating temples and ward houses, fasting (ends with a prayer)--and more.

The fact is, Christ is the centerpiece of LDS worship. The church's name alone should tell you that.
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Christ is a fiction. Whether Jesus even existed is still a matter for debate in many quarters, but Christ certainly did/does not.

JS found a way of doing what con men like him do: make as much money and get as much sex as he wanted without actually working. He wrote a bad Bible fanfiction, based on a false history of Pre-Colombian America and managed to get a bunch of gullible people to believe it. That part really doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is that gullible people today still believe it.

As for your temple ceremonies that you claim under Jesus, JS stole them from the Masons. Before he became a Mason the primary ordinances were common things like anointing with oil and washing of feet. Once JS joined the Masons, suddenly there's a whole other bunch of ordinances that are suspiciously like the Masons. Oh wait. The Masons had corrupted the original ordinances, and JS simply brought them back. :rolleyes:

Btw, since it's been a long time since I read the Bible, did Jesus do baptisms for the dead?
 
abaddon said:
Yep, arbitrary desire. Joe made it all up out of a hat.
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Whether he "made it all up" or not, LDS are practicing Christians.

: You have been provided with a bucket load in this very thread. Do you want some more?
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You missed my point. Whether J.S. "made it all up" or not, LDS are practicing Christians.

: Except he never existed. Bit of a hole in your position there, no?
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If Christ never existed, why does it matter to you that LDS call themselves Christians? Our exchange is about whether or not LDS are justified in calling themselves Christians; it isn't about whether or not Jesus became Christ.
 
Empress said:
Christ is a fiction.
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You keep missing the mark. It doesn't matter, in the context of this exchange, if Christ is a fiction. The fact is, LDS follow the teachings of Jesus who they believe became Christ. Thus, LDS are Christians.

: Whether Jesus even existed is still a matter for debate in many quarters, but Christ certainly did/does not.
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Both clauses are speculative. Having summarily dismissed Jesus and Christ, you proceed to denigrate Joseph Smith. Entirely predictable.
 
skyrider44 said:
Thus, LDS are Christians.
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I accept the premise. They roughly follow the teachings of Christ.

But they don't adhere strictly to Christianity (few Christian churches come close).

Matthew 6:19 said:
"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.
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Tell that to Romney. He won't drink Coke I'll bet even though that is not scripture. But he and most wealthy Mormons store up treasures on Earth as much as they can.

The nice thing about the Bible is that there is so much in there it can mean whatever you want. Mormons have an added out. They state that the Bible is the word of god so far as it is translated correctly. Translation = the Bible means what Mormons say it means.
 
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