LDS

[Pixel42]

Plenty of devout Christians think LDS teachings are the lies of Lucifer. Why should we believe you rather than them?

 

[RoboTimbo]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.

I'll never give up on you, Janadele.

Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

Sorry, I must have missed those. Which ones were they?

 

[Janadele]

Plenty of devout Christians think LDS teachings are the lies of Lucifer. Why should we believe you rather than them?

Pixie, Your own Spirit within you knows the truth and will guide and direct your path if you will but listen. Pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that you can distinguish the light of Christ from the clamour of the heathen world. Seek and ye shall find.

 

[Mister Earl]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

If I were Lucifer, I would have created Mormonism. An offshoot of a mainstream religion, begun by a liar and a fraud, with the adherents taking racism and mysogeny and turning that hate into doctrine, then follow it up by making sure its adherents' children are raised to take everything at face value and to question absolutely nothing they're told. Follow it up by making it a requirement to preach in the manner you do by consistently bearing false witness, and BAM! Express lane into hell. Hope you've got a window seat at least.

 

[Pixel42]

Pixie, Your own Spirit within you knows the truth and will guide and direct your path if you will but listen. Pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that you can distinguish the light of Christ from the clamour of the heathen world. Seek and ye shall find.

Did that years ago, first time a Mormon suggested it. Nada.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Pixie, Your own Spirit within you knows the truth and will guide and direct your path if you will but listen. Pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that you can distinguish the light of Christ from the clamour of the heathen world. Seek and ye shall find.

Hey, that's the same thing that real Christians say about Mormons! How are we to know who is right?

 

[Pixel42]

If I were Lucifer, I would have created Mormonism. An offshoot of a mainstream religion, begun by a liar and a fraud, with the adherents taking racism and mysogeny and turning that hate into doctrine, then follow it up by making sure its adherents' children are raised to take everything at face value and to question absolutely nothing they're told. Follow it up by making it a requirement to preach in the manner you do by consistently bearing false witness, and BAM! Express lane into hell. Hope you've got a window seat at least.

You forgot the bit about tempting good people to commit the ultimate blasphemy of believing they can also be gods one day. That's why many Christians think the LDS is the work of Lucifer.

 

[Mister Earl]

You forgot the bit about tempting good people to commit the ultimate blasphemy of believing they can also be gods one day. That's why many Christians think the LDS is the work of Lucifer.

Of course there's the whole "A camel can sooner enter the eye of a needle than a rich man can enter the kingdom of god." bit. The LDS conveniently ignores this rather straightforward command. LDS is all about the accruing wealth. I've been to Salt Lake City, and I've been through Temple Square. Even in quite a few of the buildings, though I didn't bother going into the Tabernacle. Not that I could if I wanted to, I'm pretty sure they have their own security. The buildings were the usual set up to impress folks... at least two each of the most expensive of everything. The place exudes wealth, and by necessary extention, failure to follow their own doctrine. I don't think their hearts are in it at all.

 

[Polaris]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

I choose JIFF.

 

[kerikiwi]

Pixie, Your own Spirit within you knows the truth and will guide and direct your path if you will but listen. Pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that you can distinguish the light of Christ from the clamour of the heathen world. Seek and ye shall find.

I did and he said you are following Lucifer.
Now, how do I tell which Christ is the real one: yours or mine?

 

[RandFan]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

False dichotomy. There are other gods in the pantheon.

 

[Mister Earl]

False dichotomy. There are other gods in the pantheon.

Slightly OT, but I just wanted to mention that every time I see your avatar, I hear "I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend!"

 

[RandFan]

Slightly OT, but I just wanted to mention that every time I see your avatar, I hear "I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend!"

 

[bruto]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

So who's posting here, your cat?

 

[Apology]

Mormon Trolls Attempting To Censure Mormon Sex Scandals

I almost missed this article because I don't care for political mudslinging. This is exactly the type of biased source that Janadele is complaining about. However, I decided to spend a few minutes doing independent research on the list in this article, and found unbiased sources for nearly all of these cases. I have a hard time believing that Deseret News, ABC News, Fox News, and Huffington Post all have an anti-Mormon bias! Here's what I found---names are linked to the source article, and quotes are a small snippet from each article.

Lon Harvey Kennard:

Lon Harvey Kennard Sr. was charged Tuesday in 4th District Court with 24 counts of aggravated sexual abuse of a child, a first-degree felony; 21 counts of sexual exploitation of a minor, a second-degree felony; one count of forcible sodomy, a second-degree felony; and one count of witness tampering, a third-degree felony.

Eneudo Petit, Mormon Bishop:

PROVO, Utah (ABC 4 News) - Police say a man who was accused of sexual abuse in Utah County is avoiding the law in Venezuela.

Eneudo Petit was an LDS bishop when he was accused of sexual abuse of two minor girls who are related to him. ABC 4 News has obtained his graphic, seven page arrest warrant that details the charges and allegations.

Timothy McCleve, Mormon Bishop:

A former bishop in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who pleaded guilty to sexually abusing three young girls in his Harrisville ward, cried today as he was sentenced for his crimes.

But the emotion Timothy McCleve showed wasn't enough to get a lighter sentence: He will spend two to 30 years in prison for molesting the three sisters.

John Baysen, Mormon Missionary:

OGDEN, Utah (AP) -- Former Mormon missionary John Baysen of Kinston, N.C., has been sentenced to 180 days in jail for fondling a girl and a young woman as they slept and videotaping it.

Baysden, 22, had pleaded guilty to two counts of forcible sex abuse, both second-degree felonies carrying potential sentences of one to 15 years in prison.

Second District Judge Pamela Heffernan dismissed two other forcible sex abuse charges and two misdemeanor counts of voyeurism.

Jack LaHolt, most notorious Mormon Scout Master: I'm unable to find any free news sources on this case---they're all archived due to age. If anyone has a Findlaw subscription they could look up this case number for more details on Mr. LaHolt's transgressions: 2004 WL 1282850 (Cal.App. 6 Dist. 2004).

Frank Curtis, Mormon Boy Scout leader and Sunday School teacher:

Jeremiah Scott was 11 when the abuse and molestation began in 1990 at the hands of an elder in his Mormon church in Portland, Ore. After the man died in 1995, Scott's mother sued the church in 1998 for putting her son at risk.

His mother said when she reported the abuse of Brother Frank Curtis to church authorities, she was told they already knew about it. Digging deeper, her attorneys discovered molestation claims against Curtis that stretched across state lines and went back decades.

But the church employed a unique legal defense: As a religious institution, church leaders said they were protected by the First Amendment's separation of church and state from having to surrender personnel files, victims' complaints or other documents.

Susan Brock, Relief Society:

Brock faced anywhere from seven to 15 years in prison -- with a presumptive sentence of 10 years -- after pleading guilty to three counts of attempted sexual conduct with a minor in January. Judge Robert Olson, apparently, was not swayed by a defense psychologist's argument that Brock showed remorse and should be "rehabilitated in the community."

I highly recommend giving the linked article a read. It's an extremely complicated and fascinating case. Ms. Brock's husband was a prominent County Supervisor and politician, and Ms. Brock's daughter was also involved in the case

Art Phillips, Mormon Sunday School teacher: I was unable to find any free news sources on this case---they're all archived due to age. There's also a great deal of red herring flooding due to the fact that there's a much-loved Vancouver mayor also named Art Phillips.

Eric Patrick "Ricky" Avant, Mormon Boy Scout Leader, sentenced to 26 years for molesting boys over multiple years:

LA Times news archive, including court documents and contemporary news articles about the Avant case. This is a great resource for any sexual abuse case involving the Boy Scouts between 1947 and 2005 and contains information on about 5,000 people who were expelled from the Scouts on suspicion of sexual abuse.

Richard Kenneth Ray, LDS member who confessed to two LDS Bishops:

The settlement was reached Tuesday, the day trial was scheduled to start after a July 1988 ruling by the Arizona Court of Appeals that compelled two LDS bishops and another church official to give testimony about conversations they had with a church member, Richard Kenneth Ray, who, according to court records, told them he was molesting children.
<snip>
Ray, 47, was sentenced in September 1984 to 61 years in prison for the molestation of five girls.

Ryan Whitaker, Mormon Sunday School Teacher:

Ryan Whitaker was convicted Friday of two counts of child molestation Friday. The judge, however, found him not guilty on charges of rape of a child and a third count of child molestation.

Whitaker, a divorce attorney with an office in downtown Vancouver, was accused of abusing a 9-year-old girl at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on Northeast 50th Avenue.

Please note that there is only ONE CASE on the list that I wasn't able to verify using an unbiased, free news source. There is a second case on the list that requires a subscription in order to download the case file. The fact that there's an actual court file on record means that it's the most unbiased source available, the court file itself.

The VAST MAJORITY of these cases were easily verifiable by doing simple Google searches. None of MY sources are anti-Mormon blogs. None of these cases are based on rumor or mudslinging, in spite of the bias of the original source of the list. FACTS ARE FACTS---saying that one source is biased doesn't make the other sources biased as well. Nor does claiming bias do ONE THING to mitigate these people's guilt or help their victims.

One may say, "Well, that's nothing compared to the Catholic Church." Does it really matter that the Catholic Church has been caught covering up similar cases? No, pointing the finger at the Catholic Church and saying "B-b-but, but, but, they did it too!!!" doesn't mitigate the crimes of the LDS church and the Mormon perpetrators of these crimes. The Catholic Church is also paying the price for their bad behavior, and their transgressions are also being exposed publicly. If anyone would like to start a thread called "But the Catholics did it too!" and provide me with a list of prominent Catholic clergy members who are alleged child molesters, I'd be glad to provide the same verification service in that thread that I've provided here about the LDS Church.

IMPORTANT NOTE: On some of the more "biased" sites, there are long lists of other cases that the LDS Church has settled out of court without admitting any wrongdoing. There are also a large number of cases in which the defendant plea-bargained to a lesser charge and got out with a slap on the wrist that didn't really make headlines. These cases that I've verified here are merely the tip of the iceberg.

Edit: I left out Arthur Gary Bishop

No one can say with any certainty when Gary Bishop crossed the line from morbid daydreams into active pedophilia. Years later, scores of Utah parents would complain of Bishop molesting their children, but none came forward at the timenot even as fantasies degenerated into murder.

This true crime article is 11 pages long, so I haven't read it all yet.

 

[Craig4]

Pixie, Your own Spirit within you knows the truth and will guide and direct your path if you will but listen. Pray in the name of Jesus Christ and ask that you can distinguish the light of Christ from the clamour of the heathen world. Seek and ye shall find.

Is that kind of like how Smith's spirit within led him to sexually molest underage girls and seek the assistance of an abortionist? Or is it how the spirit told him to lie about the Book of Abraham's true content (ie that the book had nothing to do with Abraham)?

 

[Craig4]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

No, you chose to follow a rapist and a liar.

 

[Rincewind]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

Then what on Earth are you doing here?

 

[Rincewind]

Sadly, those who refuse to open their eyes to the truth are a lost cause, not worthy of wasting precious time over.
Each has a choice to follow Lucifer or Christ. I choose Jesus Christ and have absolutely no interest nor time to debate or consider the lies and misunderstandings propagated by the followers of Lucifer.

I think that the majority of members here actually follow nobody.

Many years ago I was quite a devout Christian, but when I examined the data realised that it - and all other religions - are nonsense.

 

[Stomatopoda]

So... I was playing Bioshock Infinite a couple weeks back, and just couldn't stop noticing how closely the setting resembled an LDS utopia, complete with SkyMormons and the SkyProphet SmithYoungComstock. Had a go at it, yet, Janadele?