Latest Middle East News

[The Fool]

Then why are they behaving like this? Honestly, I'd like a more plausible reason than a_u_p's or The Fool's anti-Israel rants. And believe me when I tell you that the idea of the Palestinians not being capable of self-government strikes me as implausible, also.

Why are they shooting themselves? It's like the whole country is completely nuts.

Maybe we should just call it what it is - civil war.

Top points for noticing the civil war...

who do you think we should assist in coming out on top?

 

[Ed]

Lemme see if I get this straight, feel free to correct me.

A) If I post actual news stories regarding current events in Gaza and the West bank that is something inflammatory just to get a response.

Or is it

B) If I make sarcastic comments about actual news stories regarding current events in Gaza and the West bank that is something inflammatory just to get a response.


Could trolls also be posters who enter a thread and derail it to accuse other posters of being a troll?

Why would anybody post something if he was not hoping for a response? Isn't that the nature of foura?

 

[webfusion]

who do you think we should assist in coming out on top?

There is not any choice to make about that --- all parties with any involvement (the UN, the USA, the EU, the Israelis) fully back Abbas and the PA. The only support that HAMAS is receiving comes from Syria and Iran (and probably Libya, through backdoor channels).

 

[Ed]

Things will eventually hit the fan there since they don't have the jews to blame. Kim Howells sounds like an interesting guy:

"The Palestinians are receiving more aid per capita than any other people on the face of the earth, and we want to see some proper response," Howells said, hinting at a decrease of economic aid if the Palestinians don't fight terror.
http://www.icej.org/cgi-local/view.cgi?type=headline&artid=2005/09/30/856604725

And

"I thought the retaliation this week was proportionate … The [Palestinian] attack was a very serious one, it could have killed a lot of people. It's a miracle really there weren't more casualties …"
"… it seems to me that the Israelis have targeted with great care those it believes responsible for firing those rockets … If this care continues … the world will understand [Israelis] are trying to defend their citizens, which after all is the primary responsibility of any government."
"The Palestinians are receiving more aid per capita than any other people on the face of the earth, and we want to see some proper response."
"Sooner or later [the Palestinians] have to make a tough decision and start disarming the armed factions within Gaza and the West Bank. If they don't, how can the rest of the world have any confidence in their ability to bring good governance to these areas? We are waiting with bated breath for a response from the PA and it has to be a signal that it is capable of good governance. This is not a bottomless pit that this money is coming from."
"I think there is no excuse now … Gaza is now in the hands of the Palestinian Authority, and there are no Israeli troops there. One hopes that where tough decisions have to be made, Abu Mazen [PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas] and the PA will make them."
"Look, they have 60,000 troops in the PA, they have all the equipment they need. What they need is the political will to do it."

http://www.zoa.org/pressrel2005/20050930a.htm

I suspect that we will go from jew blaming to deafining silence.

 

[epepke]

Things will eventually hit the fan there since they don't have the jews to blame.

When has this ever stopped people from blaming Jews?

 

[BPSCG]

who do you think we should assist in coming out on top?

Whichever side has a committment to liberal democracy.

Otherwise, do the Pontius Pilate bit,and wash our collective hands of it. Tragic for the innocent caught up in it. I've heard of a country that has been letting immigrants in by the millions for hundreds of years; maybe they want to think about moving to that country and letting the Silastic Armorfiends fight it out.

 

[The Fool]

Whichever side has a committment to liberal democracy.
Otherwise, do the Pontius Pilate bit,and wash our collective hands of it. Tragic for the innocent caught up in it. I've heard of a country that has been letting immigrants in by the millions for hundreds of years; maybe they want to think about moving to that country and letting the Silastic Armorfiends fight it out.

committment to democracy? So you support the PA over Hamas then? Being the ones to have faced elections...or will I have to pull a couple more teeth to get you to commit?

If we should support the PA...What sort of support should we give them? maybe some restrictions on access to weapons?

?

 

[The Fool]

There is not any choice to make about that --- all parties with any involvement (the UN, the USA, the EU, the Israelis) fully back Abbas and the PA. The only support that HAMAS is receiving comes from Syria and Iran (and probably Libya, through backdoor channels).

does refusing to lift bans and restrictions count as full backing? If not, I think you should remove Israel from your list of those that "fully back" the PA.

 

[zenith-nadir]

I am always puzzled why folks fly over threads and then carpet bomb them with troll references. They usually close these displays of finger-pointing with "and with that.. I am outta here". The hypocrisy is always priceless.

You haven't been reading Z-N's posts then, have you. He is the 'king' of smilies in the politics forum.

Are you being racist against smileys?

UAE President, Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan on Sunday instructed that a whole city bearing the name of "Khalifa bin Zayed" is to be constructed on the grounds of the ex-Israeli settlements in Gaza Strip.

I eagerly await the ground-breaking ceremony.

Top points for noticing the civil war...

Perhaps you could explain to me what they are fighting over? Aren't they all on the same side? Isn't the PA the elected government?

who do you think we should assist in coming out on top?

I choose the corruption and impotentcy of the PA who's political legitimacy hinges on abandoning terrorism once and for all over a fanatical Taliban-like state trying to destroy Israel under the Shah of Hamas.

Things will eventually hit the fan there since they don't have the jews to blame.

What's happening these days shows you what the jews have had to put up with. Luckily in Gaza it's all Abbas's problem now.

Tragic for the innocent caught up in it.

That is the true crime.

If we should support the PA...What sort of support should we give them? maybe some restrictions on access to weapons?

Why does the PA need more weapons? Aren't Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades on the same side as the PA?

 

[Melendwyr]

Why are the Palestinians violent and poorly-ruled?

Because, as a group, they're poor and uneducated. Poor and uneducated people the world over tend not to exist in stable, benevolent societies. At best they're found in unstable subsections of larger, wealthier, and better educated societies.

Lack of money and ignorance feed off each other. It's a self-perpetuating system, y'all.

 

[The Fool]

Perhaps you could explain to me what they are fighting over? Aren't they all on the same side? Isn't the PA the elected government?

you should study up on the conflict rather than just reposting stuff. Then you may be able to tell them apart. Can you tell the various power seeking factions in Iraq apart? How about in america? Do they all look the same there too?

I choose the corruption and impotentcy of the PA who's political legitimacy hinges on abandoning terrorism once and for all over a fanatical Taliban-like state trying to destroy Israel under the Shah of Hamas.

well done ZN, you are well on the way to holding a position. In what way can we support the PA?

Why does the PA need more weapons? Aren't Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades on the same side as the PA?

have you not noticed the conflict that you repost here on a daily basis? You want the PA to defeat Hamas in a civil war and you also want to make it as difficult for them as possible. This will only serve to extend the period of conflict and hardship.....Is that the point? A Palistinian society in turmoil is much more usefull to your agenda?

 

[BPSCG]

committment to democracy? So you support the PA over Hamas then?

I said liberal democracy, which entails support for human rights. Arafat's been dead, what, six months? He certainly never embodied that principle, and I haven't seen much evidence that Abbas is a lot better, though he has a poisonous legacy to overcome.

Being the ones to have faced elections...or will I have to pull a couple more teeth to get you to commit?

Really, what you're asking is whether we should support Hitler or Mussolini. One is less bad than the other, but why should we support either?

America is a land of immigrants. What would happen if we were to issue a public proclamation that we abhor the violence going on by the Silastic Armorfiends, and if anyone wants to emigrate from there to settle permanently in the US in order to escape the madness of his country and to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity, we will welcome him with open arms?

And let the Silastic Armorfiends murder each other, over their disagreement about the best reason to exterminate the Jews, to their hearts' content.

 

[webfusion]

Backing them to the max --

TF asks: "does refusing to lift bans and restrictions count as full backing?"

Bans? Restrictions?
What do you think, we Israelis are naive pollyannas? The Palestinians will get our support for every effort they make which moves them away from being a terror-state-in-the-making.
---- If they want more bullets, fine, let them.
(Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, acquiescing to the repeated requests of American General Ward, just allowed the Egyptians to provide the PA with Kalishnikov bullets by the truckload).
---- If they want prisoners released, fine, let 'em go.
(Israel Defense Forces will advise the government to release additional Palestinian prisoners, in an effort to strengthen Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, a senior IDF officer told Haaretz yesterday.)
---- If they want to have HAMAS in their government, fine, do it.
(The IDF supports the diplomatic campaign to force Hamas to choose between entering Palestinian politics and being an armed terrorist organization.)

What specific bans and restrictions are you suggesting the Israelis lift, TF?
I am curious what series of confidence-building measures you would like to see Israel embark upon this winter? And what things might the PA do to show their seriousness of intent?

 

[zenith-nadir]

you should study up on the conflict rather than just reposting stuff.

zing.

Then you may be able to tell them apart. Can you tell the various power seeking factions in Iraq apart? How about in america? Do they all look the same there too?

So the Republicans and the Democrats are like Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority...er....ok.

well done ZN, you are well on the way to holding a position. In what way can we support the PA?

Exactly how much more support does the PA need the fool? For a decade now the US and EU have been meeting here and there and everywhere on earth while throwing money at the PA.... and it's worse today in Gaza than it was ten years ago.

have you not noticed the conflict that you repost here on a daily basis?

Which conflict? Israel vs Hamas or Israel vs Islamic Jihad or the PA vs Hamas or is it Islamic Jihad vs Hamas vs the PA vs Israel?

You want the PA to defeat Hamas in a civil war and you also want to make it as difficult for them as possible.

Under every peace treaty Arafat signed with Israel he was obligated to dismantle and disarm the terror organizations. He didn't... and Abbas was right there with him. Sorry but I have ZERO sympathy for the PA...

Is that the point? A Palistinian society in turmoil is much more usefull to your agenda?

I have no agenda. Do you think I like this anarchy going on? You must be nuts. But I point it out as evidence to debunk the many myths about the reality on-the-ground. These are real cold-blooded killers and thugs...thousands of them...virtual armies...who kill Palestinians who stand in their way and, ironically, they don't even hate Palestinians as much as they hate jews.

 

[The Fool]

I said liberal democracy, which entails support for human rights. Arafat's been dead, what, six months? He certainly never embodied that principle, and I haven't seen much evidence that Abbas is a lot better, though he has a poisonous legacy to overcome.
Really, what you're asking is whether we should support Hitler or Mussolini. One is less bad than the other, but why should we support either?

America is a land of immigrants. What would happen if we were to issue a public proclamation that we abhor the violence going on by the Silastic Armorfiends, and if anyone wants to emigrate from there to settle permanently in the US in order to escape the madness of his country and to secure the blessings of liberty for himself and his posterity, we will welcome him with open arms?

And let the Silastic Armorfiends murder each other, over their disagreement about the best reason to exterminate the Jews, to their hearts' content.

as I suspected, more teeth pulling required to find out who you think we should support in what is effectively a struggle for dominance in a future palestinian state. Do you think its reasonable to withhold support but not withold demands to put down Hamas?
Instead of displaying bigotry by constantly describing Palestinians as Silastic Armorfiends how about you just decide who we should be supporting.

 

[The Fool]

So the Republicans and the Democrats are like Islamic Jihad and the Palestinian Authority...er....ok.

No, I didn't say that..you made it up.... but at least you take the time to learn why republicans and democrats are not the same..when it comes to Palestinians they are all the same to you.

Exactly how much more support does the PA need the fool? For a decade now the US and EU have been meeting here and there and everywhere on earth while throwing money at the PA.... and it's worse today in Gaza than it was ten years ago.

It needs more support than Hamas if you want it to come out on top of Hamas...do you? Or don't you care as long as turmoil continues to help you make continued Israeli occupation look like the best answer.

Which conflict? Israel vs Hamas or Israel vs Islamic Jihad or the PA vs Hamas or is it Islamic Jihad vs Hamas vs the PA vs Israel?

can you tell the difference?

Under every peace treaty Arafat signed with Israel he was obligated to dismantle and disarm the terror organizations. He didn't... and Abbas was right there with him. Sorry but I have ZERO sympathy for the PA...

I know you have zero sympathy...you also have zero suggestions for how we should move ahead that don't involve Israel moving in and imposing Pax romana

I have no agenda. Do you think I like this anarchy going on?

Lol...no agenda??
As for liking the anarchy...I believe you do...you certainly add enough smilies to stories about it.

You must be nuts.

thats original.

But I point it out as evidence to debunk the many myths about the reality on-the-ground. These are real cold-blooded killers and thugs...thousands of them...virtual armies...who kill Palestinians who stand in their way and, ironically, they don't even hate Palestinians as much as they hate jews.

So either do something about them or support other people who want to.

 

[kalen]

What is so wrong with the PA that they can't reign in radical militants. The PA must be incompetent boobs if they can't do that. I mean, just look how easy the US and governmental forces make it look in Iraq.

Oops. Bad example.

 

[BPSCG]

as I suspected, more teeth pulling required to find out who you think we should support in what is effectively a struggle for dominance in a future palestinian state.

Read what I wrote again:

Really, what you're asking is whether we should support Hitler or Mussolini. One is less bad than the other, but why should we support either?

What's in there that makes you think I believe we should support either side?

Do you think its reasonable to withhold support but not withold demands to put down Hamas?

As Z-N pointed out, they've had support for years and years (what happened to Arafat's stolen billions?) and never put down Hamas. How long should we pour money down that rathole?

Instead of displaying bigotry by constantly describing Palestinians as Silastic Armorfiends how about you just decide who we should be supporting.

So, "Neither" is not a satisfactory answer?

As for my alleged "bigotry", please tell me how this description of the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax doesn't sound like the various Palestinian factions:

They fought their enemies (i.e. everybody else), they fought each other. Their planet was a complete wreck. The surface was littered with abandoned cities which were surrounded by abandoned war machines, which were in turn surrounded by deep bunkers in which the Silastic Armorfiends lived and squabbled with each other.

What part of our world does that sound like to you? Sweden? Italy?

Australia?

 

[a_unique_person]

What do you think, we Israelis are naive pollyannas? The Palestinians will get our support for every effort they make which moves them away from being a terror-state-in-the-making.
---- If they want more bullets, fine, let them.
(Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz, acquiescing to the repeated requests of American General Ward, just allowed the Egyptians to provide the PA with Kalishnikov bullets by the truckload).

Every support vs finally responding to repeated requests? Doesn't quite sound the same to me.

 

[The Fool]

Read what I wrote again: What's in there that makes you think I believe we should support either side?

Because you want to have a stake in the outcome.

As Z-N pointed out, they've had support for years and years (what happened to Arafat's stolen billions?) and never put down Hamas. How long should we pour money down that rathole?

The rathole has indeed had american money poured into it. Where do you think it has gone and continues to goes in the main...to Palestinians? The Israelis? The Egyptians? The UN?

So, "Neither" is not a satisfactory answer?

I think its right up there with Mycrofts whatever they agree with that brings peace answer. But satisfactory is a very subjective term. I'm sure it could be if you looked at the situation from a particular viewpoint.

As for my alleged "bigotry", please tell me how this description of the Silastic Armorfiends of Striterax doesn't sound like the various Palestinian factions:What part of our world does that sound like to you? Sweden? Italy?
Australia?

Maybe we can call them klingons next week just for some variety?

Can we take this back to basics maybe? Do you support the separation of Church and state?