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[Thermal]

It was implied. You know, context. Human language and all. We're not robots.

Quick note: the dispatcher may have been saying 'we don't need you to do that' using the Southern colloquialism, where 'you don't need to' means 'don't'

 

[Ziggurat]

Because it produces a very different scenario

Not in a way that matters. Remember, the point of my hypothetical was to address the issue of who started the fight, and if that made a difference in the legality of lethal force. And it doesn't necessarily.

 

[Ziggurat]

It was implied. You know, context. Human language and all. We're not robots.

Whether or not the desire was implied, no command was issued. And if you want to talk about context, well, the context is that the dispatcher had no authority to give Zimmerman any commands, and Zimmerman was under no legal obligation to follow any commands from the dispatcher.

 

[Belz...]

Still not a command.

"Please don't do this" is also not a command.

Also Zig and yourself are arguing against a strawman. I never mentioned a command. They still told him not to do that.

 

[Belz...]

Quick note: the dispatcher may have been saying 'we don't need you to do that' using the Southern colloquialism, where 'you don't need to' means 'don't'

That's how I understood it. I've heard that turn of phrase on occasion and always to mean "don't do that".

 

[Ziggurat]

"Please don't do this" is also not a command.

Also Zig and yourself are arguing against a strawman. I never mentioned a command. They still told him not to do that.

No, she didn't tell him not to, and she didn't ask him not to. "Please don't do this" is a request. "Don't do this" is an imperative. "You don't have to do this" is neither an imperative nor a request.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

The dispatcher's words were quite clear, and these semantic games people are playing are ridiculous. I remember when I was six, and I told my mom, "You didn't tell me not to do it, you just said that you didn't want me to!" I knew when I was six that it was a BS argument.

Everyone here, I am presuming, is older than six.

 

[Belz...]

No, she didn't tell him not to, and she didn't ask him not to. "Please don't do this" is a request. "Don't do this" is an imperative. "You don't have to do this" is neither an imperative nor a request.

You are deliberately ignoring the implication of the phrase. Why?

 

[Ziggurat]

You are deliberately ignoring the implication of the phrase. Why?

Two reasons: one, there's a difference between what is implicit and explicit, and two, as I already told you: the dispatcher had no authority to tell Zimmerman what to do, and Zimmerman had no obligation to obey any directives either.

 

[Belz...]

Two reasons: one, there's a difference between what is implicit and explicit, and two, as I already told you: the dispatcher had no authority to tell Zimmerman what to do, and Zimmerman had no obligation to obey any directives either.

1) So you admit that there is, in fact, an implied request to not follow Martin?

2) I did not say it was a command. I said he was asked not to follow Martin.

I realise that it's hard to keep up with various posters' stances in a discussion, but this isn't the first time that I point (2) out.

 

[Fast Eddie B]

The dispatcher's words were quite clear, and these semantic games people are playing are ridiculous. I remember when I was six, and I told my mom, "You didn't tell me not to do it, you just said that you didn't want me to!" I knew when I was six that it was a BS argument.

Everyone here, I am presuming, is older than six.

I agree about the semantic games, but you changed the words being used to your 6-year-old self.

The difference being,

"Mom, I'm going to go pick you a boquet of wildflowers."

Mom answers,

"That's sweet, but I really don't need you to do that!"

Would you really interpret that to mean DO NOT pick her any flowers, or just that it's not necessary that you do so? Sure seems the intent is the latter.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

I agree about the semantic games, but you changed the words being used to your 6-year-old self.

The difference being,

"Mom, I'm going to go pick you a boquet of wildflowers."

Mom answers,

"That's sweet, but I really don't need you to do that!"

Would you really interpret that to mean DO NOT pick her any flowers, or just that it's not necessary that you do so? Sure seems the intent is the latter.

No. But do you think a 911 dispatcher is being coy if she says "We don't need you to do that?" Context matters, and it was very clear there.

 

[Ziggurat]

1) So you admit that there is, in fact, an implied request to not follow Martin?

Do you admit that the dispatcher did not say "don't follow him"?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Here you go:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shortly

Got it. So a photo taken a month later is shortly after.

 

[theprestige]

No. But do you think a 911 dispatcher is being coy if she says "We don't need you to do that?" Context matters, and it was very clear there.

Actually, I do think she's being coy. She's got no authority, and no competence, to decide this issue. It's up to Zimmerman to decide for himself what is the best course of action.

The idea that he "disobeyed" the dispatcher is, of course, wrong. The idea that he disagreed with her is a red herring.

 

[Belz...]

Do you admit that the dispatcher did not say "don't follow him"?

Don't sidestep the question. Answer me.

 

[johnny karate]

Got it. So a photo taken a month later is shortly after.

That photo was taken about an hour after his "brutal beating".

Most people who know the basic facts of the case are aware of that.

 

[acementhead]

Got it. So a photo taken a month later is shortly after.

Yes indeed, and a photo taken five years previously is shortly before(according to the Zimmerman haters).

 

[acementhead]

The dispatcher's words were quite clear, and these semantic games people are playing are ridiculous. I remember when I was six, and I told my mom, "You didn't tell me not to do it, you just said that you didn't want me to!" I knew when I was six that it was a BS argument.

Even Kramer has a better understanding of semantics than you do. Evidence?

"These pretzels are making me thirsty."

 

[theprestige]

Got it. So a photo taken a month later is shortly after.

That photo was taken about an hour after his "brutal beating".

Most people who know the basic facts of the case are aware of that.

The photo you linked to appears to belong to a Daily Mail article that was written two years after the incident. And lacks any kind of citation that would allow us to place it properly in the timeline of events. Do you have another source for this photo?