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Laser weather modification

On CBS news, Dr Michio Kaku says CIA weaponized it against Viet Cong in the 60's, then says allegedly.
A link to a 3 minute long video on an obscure, bit crackpot YouTube channel and there is "allegedly" as if you never looked at it or the full interview!
At what time does Michio Kaku actually say this?
The OP is a lie.

There are some idiots on the internet touting this video as supporting their delusions about weather modification and the "government".

In the real world there are scientists who are currently looking at methods for modifying weather and some will involve lasers "one day" as the presenter states in the first few seconds.
Dr Michio Kaku explains that the lasers are at an experimental stage in labs.
Dr Michio Kaku mentions rumors of previous use including that the CIA did this to bring down the monsoon in Vietnam and the presenter adds "alleged to". Now we are showing that trillion watt lasers can to this today in labs. The rest is Kaku speculating about what the future might bring.
 
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I would suppose that if the CIA used it against the Viet Cong, it is pretty good evidence that the idea was of limited to no value. If you have forgotten that ancient history, we did not win that war.
 
Some things take years to become public.

On CBS news, Dr Michio Kaku says CIA weaponized it against Viet Cong in the 60's, then says allegedly.

Laser weather modification



The stuff they did in the 60s didn't involve lasers. Once again, you're just ignorant of a program that lots of other people already knew about. Your being ignorant doesn't make it a secret.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

And, unsurprisingly, the effectiveness of this process is still in doubt, despite decades of effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding#Effectiveness

Cloud seeding has never been statistically proven to work. An ecologist at Stanford University says, "I think you can squeeze out a little more snow or rain in some places under some conditions, but that's quite different from a program claiming to reliably increase precipitation."[6]
 
Let's take a very crude stab at a first order analysis.

Suppose that in order to overcome the natural energy input that drives weather and thus hope to exert some effect and a control, Man must add an additional, say, 10%. An overhead Sun bathes the Earth with about 1,000 Watts per square meter. And so Man's input energy would have to be some 100 W/m^2. If an area of, say, 100 km on a side were to be targeted, that's an area of 10^10 (10 billion) square meters. The added 10^2 W/m^2 over 10^10 m^2 is a total input of 10^12, or one trillion Watts. That's a thousand thousand megawatts! I guess back in the 60's/early '70s the US had installed a good number of nuclear power plants, eh?

My point is this. The energy density of the atmosphere is considerable. Man's puny output can apply but a tiny ripple. (Greenhouse gases are another thing entirely.) Over large cities we can see subtle influences, to be sure, such as a heat island effects. But that doesn't amount to what we'd call a meaningful modification of weather that could be 'weaponized.' And that's involving the Sun (warming the seriously denuded land replaced by a conurbation) and the waste energy of Man in concert.

Cranks who think we have an abundance of energy to surreptitiously beam into the sky as laser emission and thereby alter weather on any meaningful scale clearly do not grasp basic physics.
 
Let's take a very crude stab at a first order analysis.

Suppose that in order to overcome the natural energy input that drives weather and thus hope to exert some effect and a control, Man must add an additional, say, 10%. An overhead Sun bathes the Earth with about 1,000 Watts per square meter. And so Man's input energy would have to be some 100 W/m^2. If an area of, say, 100 km on a side were to be targeted, that's an area of 10^10 (10 billion) square meters. The added 10^2 W/m^2 over 10^10 m^2 is a total input of 10^12, or one trillion Watts. That's a thousand thousand megawatts! I guess back in the 60's/early '70s the US had installed a good number of nuclear power plants, eh?

My point is this. The energy density of the atmosphere is considerable. Man's puny output can apply but a tiny ripple. (Greenhouse gases are another thing entirely.) Over large cities we can see subtle influences, to be sure, such as a heat island effects. But that doesn't amount to what we'd call a meaningful modification of weather that could be 'weaponized.' And that's involving the Sun (warming the seriously denuded land replaced by a conurbation) and the waste energy of Man in concert.

Cranks who think we have an abundance of energy to surreptitiously beam into the sky as laser emission and thereby alter weather on any meaningful scale clearly do not grasp basic physics.

In 1986 I worked on a prototype red laser. They were hoping for 7 watts output. They were thrilled with 15!!! IIRC, input was in kilowatts.

Have you every held a 6" rod of Alexandria in you hands? Artificial ruby.
 
Cranks who think we have an abundance of energy to surreptitiously beam into the sky as laser emission and thereby alter weather on any meaningful scale clearly do not grasp basic physics.

Most people just have no clue about the energy scales involved. And without the ability to do even crude back-of-the-envelope calculations of the sort done above, they've got no way to test ideas either. So it seems possible, like it's just a matter of figuring out the trick to it. But of course, it isn't. The energy scales driving weather are just enormous, and you can't get around that with tricks.
 
Another aspect to consider is momentum.

Let's take the mean density of the atmosphere between sea level and the tropopause as 0.5 kg/m^3. The tropopause is at least 8 km up. A bounding box 100 km on a side and 8 km deep encloses 80,000 km^3, or 8*10^13 m^3. Which is a mass of 4*10^13 kg, or 4*10*10 tonnes. 40 billion tonnes of mass in the form of moving air. Just try to conceive of the energy required to alter its motion (speed and/or direction) to any notable degree. And bear in mind that momentum scales as the square of the velocity; double the speed and the momentum quadruples.

Atomic blasts wouldn't begin to come close to providing the necessary energy input to effect (not meaning *affect*) weather modification outside of a tiny column of atmosphere a few km in width where detonated.

Again, the sheer quantity of energy involved in a moving atmosphere (or required to alter motion) is pretty mind boggling compared to Man's puny output.
 
Bubba,

Horatius said:
Your being ignorant doesn't make it a secret.

This perfectly sums up yet another of your breathless, 100% clue-free, conspiracy regurgitations with which you spam this forum.

Are you really this eagerly gullible and lazy, or are you just trolling?
 
I would suppose that if the CIA used it against the Viet Cong, it is pretty good evidence that the idea was of limited to no value. If you have forgotten that ancient history, we did not win that war.

That's just what they want you to think. If we'd lost the Vietnam war, how could the CIA have installed Kim Jong Un as a pro-US puppet?

Dave
 
Indonesians are convinced this happens daily. Go to ay event and you will see people paid to shine lasers to keep the rain away.
 
Alas, while most folk have the right idea, the power calculations are beside the point. The phenomenon Kaku refers to (and actually explains) is the use of very high power pulses to ionize the air and create nucleation sites. He then gets very sloppy in his language, and states "we did this" in Vietnam, when "this" refers to the old technique of cloud seeding, not laser use. You can read about Operation Popeye on the web. And the studio presenters then start using "allegedly" in full-screen graphics, when the "allegedly" part is that it may, allegedly, have worked. Or not. Probably not.

In any event, this is not storm steering or anything similar which might have required actual heating of the atmosphere. I have no idea of the theoretical energy requirements to produce a given quantity of nucleation sites, but I suspect it's a good deal less than that required to produce bulk heating effects in the same volume of atmosphere.
 
In 1986 I worked on a prototype red laser. They were hoping for 7 watts output. They were thrilled with 15!!! IIRC, input was in kilowatts.

Have you every held a 6" rod of Alexandria in you hands? Artificial ruby.

Did you point it at a jerk's house that then filled with popcorn? Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
Alas, while most folk have the right idea, the power calculations are beside the point. The phenomenon Kaku refers to (and actually explains) is the use of very high power pulses to ionize the air and create nucleation sites. He then gets very sloppy in his language, and states "we did this" in Vietnam, when "this" refers to the old technique of cloud seeding, not laser use. You can read about Operation Popeye on the web. And the studio presenters then start using "allegedly" in full-screen graphics, when the "allegedly" part is that it may, allegedly, have worked. Or not. Probably not.

In any event, this is not storm steering or anything similar which might have required actual heating of the atmosphere. I have no idea of the theoretical energy requirements to produce a given quantity of nucleation sites, but I suspect it's a good deal less than that required to produce bulk heating effects in the same volume of atmosphere.

Such a scheme probably would require quite a bit less energy input.

Does water vapor also become ionized?

Through what column depth does this operate, or to put it another way, what is the rate of attenuation along the beam?

I should think that in any event water vapour content would have to be above some minimum level, say around 80-90%.

Which leads to the conclusion that there would likely have to be cloud present already; certainly a clear, dry airmass could hardly be expected to be made to squeeze out any amount of actual precipitation.
 
I distinctly recall, many years ago (pre-internet days, even pre-telnet days) reading about this idea that a hurricane might be able to be dissipated, if caught early enough, by dropping a large megatonnage nuke down the eye.

I also distinctly remember there being a rather drastic downside to this course of action!!

Reality: It would not work, and it is a very, very bad idea!
 
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I distinctly recall, many years ago (pre-internet days, even pre-telnet days) reading about this idea that a hurricane might be able to be dissipated, if caught early enough, by dropping a large megatonnage nuke down the eye.

I also distinctly remember there being a rather drastic downside to this course of action!!

Reality: It would not work, and it is a very, very bad idea!

Yes and I remember reading about that too along with digging canals with multiple atomic bursts.
 

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