Larry Nassar gets 175 years.....

[angrysoba]

Is this stating of the bleeding obvious the 'virtue signalling' I hear so much about?

Yes, basically. “I would have rapists skinned alive if I had my way!” Is virtue signalling of a kind. An impotent venting of revenge fantasies by people who really want others to know how much they are against bad crimes.

I think also that Joe Morgue and others are correct about impact statements. Putting empathy at the centre of the justice system that may affect sentencing is not a good idea in my book. It encourages a stylized approach to justice - justice as therapy and performance act.

No, I have not spoken with people who have performed impact statements as sartcooky enjoins is to do, and I would be interested to know what effect this has had on those performing them.

 

[The Big Dog]

Yes, basically. “I would have rapists skinned alive if I had my way!” Is virtue signalling of a kind. An impotent venting of revenge fantasies by people who really want others to know how much they are against bad crimes.

I think also that Joe Morgue and others are correct about impact statements. Putting empathy at the centre of the justice system that may affect sentencing is not a good idea in my book. It encourages a stylized approach to justice - justice as therapy and performance act.

No, I have not spoken with people who have performed impact statements as sartcooky enjoins is to do, and I would be interested to know what effect this has had on those performing them.

100 plus young women gave statements about how this doctor repeatedly sexually assaulted them, and you call that "performance art"?

 

[Checkmite]

ETA: One of the victims, McKayla Maroney, claims she was paid by USAG to keep quiet about what happened to her

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326665

If true, then this smells like a cover-up to me.

No mere empty claim. Maroney was under a non-disclosure agreement as a result of a settlement with USAG. The NDA prevented her or any member of her family from making public statements about Nassar, which would've included making a victim impact statement at Nassar's sentencing, at the risk of a $100,000 penalty.

The only reason that didn't happen is because that circumstance became a matter of public discussion and several wealthy individuals began offering to pay the penalty if Maroney would give a statement anyway. USAG was essentially forced to make a public statement releasing Maroney from the NDA.

 

[angrysoba]

100 plus young women gave statements about how this doctor repeatedly sexually assaulted them, and you call that "performance art"?

I didn’t say “art”.

 

[angrysoba]

Don't get me started.

This attitude goes right back to politically correct philosophies in school education. This has resulted in generations of children...

- learning that there are no real consequences for bad behaviour
- being taught there are no winners or losers
- being brought up with ill-defined boundaries
- having no sense of personal responsibility for their actions

Society is reaping the rewards now that these children have grown into adults

I was a teacher once. I got out of the game once I saw what was happening.

Not to mention attitudes to speed cameras, right?

 

[Checkmite]

Victim impact statements and judge statements qualifying sentences harm no one and are cathartic for a criminal's victims. There's no foundation for concerns that they somehow interfere with any technical legal processes. Here we have a case where a woman-judge was evidently all uppity and mean and "talked unnecessarily" about one of the worst serial rapists in the nation's history, and yet ultimately still sentenced him to the prosecutor recommendation that the defendant had plea-bargained for.

 

[smartcooky]

Yes, basically. “I would have rapists skinned alive if I had my way!” Is virtue signalling of a kind. An impotent venting of revenge fantasies by people who really want others to know how much they are against bad crimes

Its only "virtue signalling" if all you want to do is make anonymous users on the internet believe you have those virtues.

I, on the other hand, don't give a fat rat's arse what anonymous users on the internet think of me. I'm not out for likes!

 

[smartcooky]

Victim impact statements and judge statements qualifying sentences harm no one and are cathartic for a criminal's victims. There's no foundation for concerns that they somehow interfere with any technical legal processes. Here we have a case where a woman-judge was evidently all uppity and mean and "talked unnecessarily" about one of the worst serial rapists in the nation's history, and yet ultimately still sentenced him to the prosecutor recommendation that the defendant had plea-bargained for.

Exaclty. Her statements had NO effect on the sentence handed down

(Jesus, I'll have to be careful... I might actually begin agreeing with you on something )

 

[smartcooky]

Not to mention attitudes to speed cameras, right?

Perhaps

 

[The Big Dog]

I didn’t say “art”.

From your post:

"justice as therapy and performance act."

I had assumed that the word 'act' was a typo. I'm not suggesting it made sense either way, but "performance act" makes none at all

 

[angrysoba]

I honeslty think the idea of individuals being held responsible for their actions instead of blaming "society" in general upsets some people.

You seem very confused. Literally nobody is saying this.

 

[angrysoba]

Its only "virtue signalling" if all you want to do is make anonymous users on the internet believe you have those virtues.

I, on the other hand, don't give a fat rat's arse what anonymous users on the internet think of me. I'm not out for likes!

Really? Then why post? I actually think you are out for likes or something similar.

 

[MikeG]

I honeslty think the idea of individuals being held responsible for their actions instead of blaming "society" in general upsets some people.

What makes you think that? I don't see any evidence of it.

 

[Craig4]

Was this deliberate?

No, I was on my phone and my fat little sausage fingers got the better of me.

 

[ddt]

No mere empty claim. Maroney was under a non-disclosure agreement as a result of a settlement with USAG. The NDA prevented her or any member of her family from making public statements about Nassar, which would've included making a victim impact statement at Nassar's sentencing, at the risk of a $100,000 penalty.

The only reason that didn't happen is because that circumstance became a matter of public discussion and several wealthy individuals began offering to pay the penalty if Maroney would give a statement anyway. USAG was essentially forced to make a public statement releasing Maroney from the NDA.

How is such an NDA even enforceable and why isn't it a crime in itself?

 

[smartcooky]

Really? Then why post?

Err, because its what I think?

Doesn't everyone here post their thoughts?

 

[smartcooky]

How is such an NDA even enforceable

Why would it not be?

and why isn't it a crime in itself?

Illegal contract perhaps? Does the USA have a Law covering illegal contracts?

What about an NDA accompanying an out of court settlement? If I assault you, but you and your lawyer and my lawyer and I come to an agreement that I will pay you $1.25m to keep it out of court so long as you sign an NDA relating to the settlement, is that a crime?

(Please reply in terms of US Federal or State Law. What happens in Europe does not apply to this case.)

 

[Belz...]

No, I was on my phone and my fat little sausage fingers got the better of me.

And yet, it was so sweet.

 

[angrysoba]

Victim impact statements and judge statements qualifying sentences harm no one and are cathartic for a criminal's victims. There's no foundation for concerns that they somehow interfere with any technical legal processes. Here we have a case where a woman-judge was evidently all uppity and mean and "talked unnecessarily" about one of the worst serial rapists in the nation's history, and yet ultimately still sentenced him to the prosecutor recommendation that the defendant had plea-bargained for.

Is there any foundation for the science of catharsis?

 

[ddt]

Why would it not be?



Illegal contract perhaps? Does the USA have a Law covering illegal contracts?

What about an NDA accompanying an out of court settlement? If I assault you, but you and your lawyer and my lawyer and I come to an agreement that I will pay you $1.25m to keep it out of court so long as you sign an NDA relating to the settlement, is that a crime?

(Please reply in terms of US Federal or State Law. What happens in Europe does not apply to this case.)

One is an NDA to cover up a crime, the other is a settlement in a civil dispute between two persons. That's a fundamental difference.

I don't know how US law or Dutch law treats it, but to me hushing up a crime stinks to high heaven. That's my personal opinion. What even more stinks is, if what Checkmite wrote is true, that it prevented Maroney from making an impact statement. Once the police and/or the DA and/or the judge knew she too was a victim of Nassar, they should IMHO be able to compel her to give testimony, both in chambers and in public, without repercussions of the NDA kicking in.

The NDA with an out-of-court settlement has its own problem, but that is relatively minor, viz. that for certain kinds of cases there's barely case law because nothing goes to sentencing, so nobody really knows the "going rate" for, e.g., certain torts.