Larry Nassar gets 175 years.....

smartcooky said:
Part of the whole liberal philosophy is that they are soft on crime and short on applying consequences for bad behaviour. This is not me characterising anything, its just common knowledge..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-trudeau-liberal-justice-crime-marijuana-1.3292965
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And this is common knowledge, too, I guess:
"The Conservatives had a bit of a vision, but it was just a sentiment of nastiness," Campbell told CBC News.
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No, what's really common knowledge is that resorting to gross generalities as a way to divert attention from what one has actually said is a tactic of the dishonest.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Yes, looking to have a more effective system is certainly just being soft on crime.
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Of course it is. The desire to make prisons less about being nightmares and more about rehabilitation is a manifestation of being soft on crime. Only lily-livered liberals would sign on for such nonsense.
 
smartcooky said:
Part of the whole liberal philosophy is that they are soft on crime and short on applying consequences for bad behaviour. This is not me characterising anything, its just common knowledge..
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What does "soft on crime" even mean? Most industrial countries around the world have far fewer people in prison than the U.S., much shorter prison sentences, no death penalty, more alternatives to incarceration (especially for drug crimes), and much lower crime rates. And even in the U.S., states with a harsher criminal justice system often have higher crime rates than others. "Soft" means effective consequences, not no consequences. If the ultimate goal is to reduce crime, "soft" might be the way to go.
 
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Dr. Keith said:
Yes, looking to have a more effective system is certainly just being soft on crime.
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It's the electric-kool-aid, oversimplisitc thinking that the simple thinking masses cling to. They don't like, and often can't do, complicated thinking so they fall back on 'we just need a bigger stick' and ignore the vast swathes of evidence to show that the bigger stick method doesn't actually produce the desired results (unless one's desired results are to move taxpayer money into the pockets of private prison owners - actually caring about the environment in which one's criminals are incarcerated can lead only to more expense)
 
Bob001 said:
What does "soft on crime" even mean? Most industrial countries around the world have far fewer people in prison than the U.S., much shorter prison sentences, no death penalty, more alternatives to incarceration (especially for drug crimes), and much lower crime rates. And even in the U.S., states with a harsher criminal justice system often have higher crime rates than others. "Soft" means effective consequences, not no consequences. If the ultimate goal is to reduce crime, "soft" might be the way to go.
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That only works cos we're all pansy, lilly-livered communists over here in Europland. Such methods wouldn't work for proper, hardened US type criminals who are, to all intents an purposes, a different and less rehabilitatable type of criminal.
 
smartcooky said:
Part of the whole liberal philosophy is that they are soft on crime and short on applying consequences for bad behaviour. This is not me characterising anything, its just common knowledge..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-trudeau-liberal-justice-crime-marijuana-1.3292965
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I don't subscribe to that view.

I do, however, think that prison conditions should be humane, consistent, observant of the rule of law, and without any extrajudicial punishment.

What kind of question is this?

Prisoners are often accorded individual handling depending on their circumstances, their crimes or who they are

some are put in isolation for their own protection.
some are in put in solitary confinement to protect other prisoners.
some are disconnected from the outside world entirely so that they cannot do things such as order hits against witnesses, or continue to run their criminal enterprises, from inside prison.

Find out who makes those decisions and you'll answer your own question?
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I have a pretty good idea that the prison warden may modify the treatment of prisoners under his care, in order to maintain peace and safety within his prison. This can be due to the prisoner's behavior in prison, due to how his crimes are commonly perceived by other prisoners, or due to some other factor.

So I guess I should start by finding out, what is the purpose of the special treatment--close supervision, solitary confinement--that you prescribe for Nassar?
 
3point14 said:
Can I see where you've gained this information from?
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Are you joking?

Pedophiles who have been released from prison and are free and capable of joining society unnoticed is part of the entire reason behind sex offender registries. Perhaps your state doesn't have one.

Picking a random state (I chose Iowa), I located that state's offender registry - which is free and open to the public - and did a general search, the only selection criteria being a victim between the ages of 8 and 17. The search returned 3743 offenders whose offenses arrange from attempted enticement to rape, along with the street addresses at which their living body, and not a corpse, presumably resides, and of course a photograph and description which explicitly includes a list of marks and scars. Now, I did not look at the entire list to be sure - I gave up after the first twenty or so - but I didn't find a single instance of any kind of noticeable disfiguring injury. All of these people finished their prison sentences or were otherwise released, and are required to contact police within certain intervals of time based on how the state categorized their particular offense.
 
3point14 said:
It's a difficulty with Ladies Gymnastics. In an attempt to create gymnastic events in which ladies were able to exceed the performance of gentlemen, the sport indeed created events that ladies were better at then men but, because of the emphasised traits, children were even better than ladies.

There's no real way around it.
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The minimum age for Olympic gymnasts is 16. Maybe it should be higher than that.
 
Checkmite said:
Are you joking?
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No. Not joking at all.


Pedophiles who have been released from prison and are free and capable of joining society unnoticed is part of the entire reason behind sex offender registries. Perhaps your state doesn't have one.

Picking a random state (I chose Iowa), I located that state's offender registry - which is free and open to the public - and did a general search, the only selection criteria being a victim between the ages of 8 and 17. The search returned 3743 offenders whose offenses arrange from attempted enticement to rape, along with the street addresses at which their living body, and not a corpse, presumably resides, and of course a photograph and description which explicitly includes a list of marks and scars. Now, I did not look at the entire list to be sure - I gave up after the first twenty or so - but I didn't find a single instance of any kind of noticeable disfiguring injury. All of these people finished their prison sentences or were otherwise released, and are required to contact police within certain intervals of time based on how the state categorized their particular offense.
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I don't really think that what you've sited here is particularly relevant to what you claimed above. Your methodology, as described above is not going to yield any results. I think you're guessing. I think it's an educated guess, but as, apparently, you view a request to bake up your blank statements as a joke, I don't think I'll bother further.
 
Matthew Best said:
The minimum age for Olympic gymnasts is 16. Maybe it should be higher than that.
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That, of course, is the age required to compete.

In order to be at a level needed to compete in the olympics, you have to be pushing massively long before that. Most olympic gymnasts are being identified by the time they are 6, I would think. And then they go to the elite training and development facility.

My boys both do gymnastics, and my older guy does it competitively. He is 9 years old and practices 3 days a week for a total of 10 hours.

We go to meets and see the hypercompetitive gyms. They train 6 or 7 days a week for 3 hours a day, and they are 7 or 8 years old. And, of course, they blow everyone else out of the water.

None of these guys are going to get to the olympics. They aren't good enough. Those guys are already pushing up and competing at higher levels. The ones that stick it out, though, will likely compete in college, though, I think.

Is it worth it? Wouldn't be to us. With gymnastics and dance classes and Cub Scouts and 4H and baseball, our kids have enough going on.

BTW, there is another kind of related case going on in volleyball. A very high-powered club coach has a history of "dating" players playing on his teams. He claims they were all 18 when he did it, they swear they weren't 18 when he was having sex with them. Irrespective, for a coach to be doing that with high school age players, is inappropriate. The USAV went round and round with it, and ultimately they have banished him, but he's still running the club and parents keep sending their kids to it, even knowing his past. Because, hey, he gets results and players from his clubs end up being successful in college. So that makes it all ok everything he has done.

He's not Larry Nassar, that's for sure, but you don't need to be that bad to be unacceptable.
 
Checkmite said:
....
I gave up after the first twenty or so - but I didn't find a single instance of any kind of noticeable disfiguring injury. All of these people finished their prison sentences or were otherwise released, and are required to contact police within certain intervals of time based on how the state categorized their particular offense.
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Crippling or permanent disfigurement is a pretty low bar. That doesn't mean prisoners weren't assaulted or abused. The punishment for a criminal conviction is loss of liberty, not torture. If some prisoners are allowed to hurt others, it means that the authorities aren't in charge of the prison. That's what's bad.

That doesn't mean that authorities can't impose limited privileges, solitary confinement or other conditions. But they are imposed by the authorities according to the law, not by prisoners.
 
pgwenthold said:
Is it worth it? Wouldn't be to us. With gymnastics and dance classes and Cub Scouts and 4H and baseball, our kids have enough going on.
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Does the equation change if it's the only way a parent can see their child getting a college education?
 
3point14 said:
Does the equation change if it's the only way a parent can see their child getting a college education?
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Can't say, and I realize we are privileged in this regard.

But damn, I can tell you, if you can't afford to send a child to college, how can you afford gymnastics training?

It costs us probably $2500/year just for our 10 hours a week (adding in meet dues and travel - some meets involve overnight trips, like when the meet is 3 hours away and starts at 7:30 am).

You could take that money and put it in a 529 instead.

As I said, we have the privilege of being able to do both. If it came down to a choice, I think the 529 would be more of sure thing.

OBTW, those are the costs for us, going to a gym that doesn't prepare the kids for college. Top end volleyball clubs will cost $10K a year in fees with national travel on top of it.
 
3point14 said:
Does the equation change if it's the only way a parent can see their child getting a college education?
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Since most children who get through college aren't gymnasts or other athletes, a parent who sees gymnastics as the "only way" is delusional from the get go. It's sure not easy, but students without money still go to community college and the state u., they take online courses, find work-study deals, borrow money, etc., etc., even enlisting for GI benefits. On the other hand, if the parents dream of zillion-dollar endorsement deals after their kids win gold medals at the Olympics, they're willing to submit them to pretty much anything.

"I, Tonya," the movie about Tonya Harding, is a chilling portrait of a crazy-ambitious mother. I'm sure she's not the only one out there.
 
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3point14 said:
I think you're guessing. I think it's an educated guess, but as, apparently, you view a request to bake up your blank statements as a joke, I don't think I'll bother further.
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I did preface my guesses with "I think".

But it is obviously not a guess that living pedophiles have been released from prison and continue to be released from prison; it is clearly a verifiable fact. Goalposts may be moved to your liking.
 
Bob001 said:
Since most children who get through college aren't gymnasts or other athletes, a parent who sees gymnastics as the "only way" is delusional from the get go. It's sure not easy, but students without money still go to community college and the state u., they take online courses, find work-study deals, borrow money, etc., etc., even enlisting for GI benefits. On the other hand, if the parents dream of zillion-dollar endorsement deals after their kids win gold medals at the Olympics, they're willing to submit them to pretty much anything.

"I, Tonya," the movie about Tonya Harding, is a chilling portrait of a crazy-ambitious mother. I'm sure she's not the only one out there.
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Alison Janney is a heavy favorite to win the Best Supporting Actress Oscar for her truly chilling performance. A change of pace for Janney who usually plays sympathetic charecters.
Although "I,Tonya" plays the plot against Nancy Kerrigan as black comedy (no other way you could do it given the sheer stupidity of everybody involved)
the issues of abuse..by both Tonya's mother and her husband..are treated seriously.
 
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