Lamont blames Scottish schools for sectarianism.

[funk de fino]

Perhaps the recent unpleasantness in Scotland has less to do with sports or Catholic schools, and more to do with, well, Scots?

Perhaps the recent unpleasantness in the USA has less to do with 911 or OBL, and more to do with, well, Yanks?

 

[Rolfe]

Do you mean specifically in Glasgow, or Scotland? South of the border there certainly are Protestant schools; I went to a Church of England grammar school, and my children went to a C of E primary school (because it was the village school, not because of the church affiliation).

I mean specifically in Scotland. There is no equivalent to the "Church of England" schools. The Church of Scotland has in practice a bit of a grip on the nondenominational schools (such as providing school chaplains), but officially they are just schools.

I think you're right, it comes down to numbers. In the south of England, I'm not aware of much anti-Catholicism, and in fifty years I've had very few knowing contacts with Catholics at all. My best friend at Junior school was Scottish, and told me I should support Celtic, so looking back I guess he was probably Catholic, though that never came up. I believe one of my grandmothers was originally Catholic, but left the church because she married a divorced man; the only reason I know this is that my mother remembers her mother having arguments with the local priest. I've been to the local Catholic church here twice, for the baptism of the children of a friend of the family. On the other hand, both my parents taught at Catholic schools at different times, and my sister currently works at one.

All this stuff about Catholics not being allowed to be prime minister, or marry into the royal family, or former priests be elected to Westminster is all English legislation, amazingly enough. I don't think anything like that was ever enshrined in Scots law.

But one of the nice things about England is that in daily life nobody seems to care who is Catholic and who is Protestant. (I once heard someone in England remark that she didn't think there were many Protestants in England. It hadn't occurred to her that the C of E is Protestant!)

Rolfe.

 

[dafydd]

I mean specifically in Scotland. There is no equivalent to the "Church of England" schools. The Church of Scotland has in practice a bit of a grip on the nondenominational schools (such as providing school chaplains), but officially they are just schools.




All this stuff about Catholics not being allowed to be prime minister, or marry into the royal family, or former priests be elected to Westminster is all English legislation, amazingly enough. I don't think anything like that was ever enshrined in Scots law.

But one of the nice things about England is that in daily life nobody seems to care who is Catholic and who is Protestant. (I once heard someone in England remark that she didn't think there were many Protestants in England. It hadn't occurred to her that the C of E is Protestant!)

Rolfe.

I'm not so sure. The Welsh Methodists and Baptists look askance at the C of E because they have communion wine and hosts with the trappings of Catholicism. To be a real Protestant in Wales you have to worship in a bare room with a few benches and a cheap electric organ. But as almost nobody in Wales goes to church regularly anymore,it doesn't really matter.

 

[Darat]

It's an Irish thing we sort of imported.... Pale imitation of the Falls Road....

Oddly, there is far more actual anti-catholic legislation in England than in Scotland. But they don't have the sectarian thing because they didn't have the same immigration thing at the time of the Potato Famine, I believe.

Rolfe.

Catholics are quite well represented in the North West of England; Liverpool in particular.

And many north western towns were quite sectarian really up to quite recent times e.g. the 60s and 70s; thankfully it really does seem to have died out but it was still there as an undercurrent when I was kid, and it helped fuel the usual us and them mentality.

 

[Darat]

I'm not so sure. The Welsh Methodists and Baptists look askance at the C of E because they have communion wine and hosts with the trappings of Catholicism. To be a real Protestant in Wales you have to worship in a bare room with a few benches and a cheap electric organ. But as almost nobody in Wales goes to church regularly anymore,it doesn't really matter.

With an electric organ? My lot would have had them on the stake and alight if they had something as frivolous as an electric organ, my lot thought is was heretical and smacked of popeism if you had walls!

 

[Darat]

To get back to Soapy's original point - it is absolutely ridiculous in this day and age to have any schools in which any religion has a hand in its administration, never mind curriculum or staff appointments.

 

[Soapy Sam]

That's pretty much my view.
I had rather hoped it was a view which was gradually becoming more widespread among ordinary people- but watching the either genuine or fake horror on the faces of various MSPs listening to Lamont's speech, I have to wonder if religious bigotry is actually more entrenched in Holyrood than at Ibrox or Celtic Park.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...amont-s-catholic-school-blast-86908-23223465/

 

[commandlinegamer]

Non-denominational school here.

We did have the odd religious assembly and service up at the church, but it wasn't really that big a deal, as far as I can remember. But I'd rather have no preaching at all in schools. Keep religious education by all means, but make sure it's education about religion and not indoctrination; save that for church, synogague, chapel or mosque if you must.

The lunacy has got to the extent that in my town you have both a non-dem and a Catholic school sharing a campus.

 

[Rolfe]

That's pretty much my view.
I had rather hoped it was a view which was gradually becoming more widespread among ordinary people- but watching the either genuine or fake horror on the faces of various MSPs listening to Lamont's speech, I have to wonder if religious bigotry is actually more entrenched in Holyrood than at Ibrox or Celtic Park.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...amont-s-catholic-school-blast-86908-23223465/

They're looking at votes. The problem is that any suggestion of phasing out Catholic schools really does seem to be a major vote loser.

And Tony Blair banging on about "faith schools" was one of the worst ideas in an amazing heap of wrong that that man perpetrated.

Rolfe.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Non-denominational school here.

We did have the odd religious assembly and service up at the church, but it wasn't really that big a deal, as far as I can remember. But I'd rather have no preaching at all in schools. Keep religious education by all means, but make sure it's education about religion and not indoctrination; save that for church, synogague, chapel or mosque if you must.

The lunacy has got to the extent that in my town you have both a non-dem and a Catholic school sharing a campus.

But not necessarily sharing a playground or an entrance because the church wouldn't accept it.

 

[Captain_Snort]

This thread has urged me to look up my old school on the web and I notice a big step backwards.

In the 1980s we had one hour a week of 'Social Education.' Many other schools had RE but I was happy that it was not religious based. It was generally taken by whatever teacher happened to be free at the time and consisted of sitting around chatting about well, stuff, or more often than not looking at teachers holiday snaps.

I look at the prospectus and see that 'Religious and Morale Eduction' is now being taught, with two teachers for that very thing. Mandatory in 1st and 2nd years and optional as an examinable subject in 3rd and 4th. Options to study philosophy in 5th and 6th.

I remember having to do a Ethics and Philosophy course in my final year in my first degree, alas it was taught by a christian god botherer. Myself, an Atheist, and a Moslem friend often had very long discussions with the lecturer on how we thought what we were being taught was very biased. Funnily we both were marked very badly for that course, barely passing, but were the only two people to actually get first class honours (summa cum laude for you yanks).

I am of the opinion if you mix religious basis up with ethics, philosophy or morality, it cannot be taught even handedly.

 

[The Don]

They're looking at votes. The problem is that any suggestion of phasing out Catholic schools really does seem to be a major vote loser.

And Tony Blair banging on about "faith schools" was one of the worst ideas in an amazing heap of wrong that that man perpetrated.

Rolfe.

And now "Free Schools" which will allow any group of nutjobs to apply their prejudices to an new generation of malleable minds.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

I'm not so sure. The Welsh Methodists and Baptists look askance at the C of E because they have communion wine and hosts with the trappings of Catholicism. To be a real Protestant in Wales you have to worship in a bare room with a few benches and a cheap electric organ. But as almost nobody in Wales goes to church regularly anymore,it doesn't really matter.

For a country where no one goes to church there sure are a hell of a lot of churches.

I went to university in Aberystwyth and off the top of my head I remember there being 5 different denominational churches. I used to live with the Catholic church behind my house and it always seemed fairly full, and the weird baptist place with huge banner adverts for the Alpha cult thing was often filled on Sundays.

 

[stokes234]

For a country where no one goes to church there sure are a hell of a lot of churches.

I went to university in Aberystwyth and off the top of my head I remember there being 5 different denominational churches. I used to live with the Catholic church behind my house and it always seemed fairly full, and the weird baptist place with huge banner adverts for the Alpha cult thing was often filled on Sundays.

West wales is one of the last remaining hiding places of genuine christianity in the uk, I would say. I live in Cardiff, and i'd say probably about 10% of the people I know are religious. Nobody under the age of 30. Well, nobody that I bump into more than once every 6 months or so.

 

[dafydd]

West wales is one of the last remaining hiding places of genuine christianity in the uk, I would say. I live in Cardiff, and i'd say probably about 10% of the people I know are religious. Nobody under the age of 30. Well, nobody that I bump into more than once every 6 months or so.

I don't know anyone who goes to church,apart from weddings,christenings and funerals.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

West wales is one of the last remaining hiding places of genuine christianity in the uk, I would say. I live in Cardiff, and i'd say probably about 10% of the people I know are religious. Nobody under the age of 30. Well, nobody that I bump into more than once every 6 months or so.

Not sure about the nobody under the age of 30 thing, I suspect a fair number of parents suddenly develop an interest in attending church around about that age. Co-incidentally this is the same time as their kids are looking to get a place in the good, public funded but church run school that is legally allowed to discriminate on religious grounds.

 

[stokes234]

Not sure about the nobody under the age of 30 thing, I suspect a fair number of parents suddenly develop an interest in attending church around about that age. Co-incidentally this is the same time as their kids are looking to get a place in the good, public funded but church run school that is legally allowed to discriminate on religious grounds.

I meant that I don't know anyone under the age of 30 that is religious, that I see more than every 6 months or so. None of my friends, family, colleagues, old university people etc. There were a handful of Jesus Army types in school, but it's pretty rare. I think the religiousness of the UK is massively overstated in the census.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

I meant that I don't know anyone under the age of 30 that is religious, that I see more than every 6 months or so. None of my friends, family, colleagues, old university people etc. There were a handful of Jesus Army types in school, but it's pretty rare. I think the religiousness of the UK is massively overstated in the census.

Of course it is. And even church attendance figures are inflated by those going to get their kids into a good school whether they have any religious belief or not.

Isn't it great to have a system where you are allowed to discriminate against children based on their parents religious beliefs and practices?