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Lambda-CDM theory - Woo or not?

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So "Godflation" did it is a "valid hypothesis" as long as I pilfer your inflation math?
FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL.
You can call the hypothesis whatever the hell you like, but calling it Godflation does not mean the hypothesis includes God. If you were to make a theory to compete with inflation that did involve God then you wouldn't be just pilfering the maths, you'd be pilfering the maths and adding God into it. Which even a pre-schooler should be able to see is something entirely different. And nobody, except possibly you, is trying to do that. So forget about God, forget about your pathetic arguments that pre-schoolers could debunk and get back to science.

Ya and your stuff also epically fails to show up in real double blind experiments too. :)
Wow. Do you understand that there is a very very very very very big difference between:
a) proven false
and
b) not proven true.
You are equating the two. This is an unbelievable failure in basic logic.
 
Ya, I get the idea you're avoiding the question. :)
Just in case someone besides Michael Mozina has forgotten the question in question, here it is:
What, in the MM worldview, constitutes "demonstrat[ing] it exists here on Earth"^? Specifically, what are the experiments which "demonstrate" (in the MM sense) that "gravity" exists (here on Earth)?

Here is Michael Mozina's attempt to derail that question:
I'm still waiting for an answer on that theist/atheist question. I think I can easily explain it to you on your own terms depending on your answer.
Michael Mozina is now pretending his derail has become the question. In reality, DeiRenDopa's religious beliefs are irrelevant to this thread; in particular, they are irrelevant to the question he asked.

Over-reliance on rhetorical tactics is often a sign of intellectual dishonesty. In this case, the deliberate substitution of an absurdly irrelevant question for a highly relevant question also points toward that conclusion.
 
I don't yet know whether or not my hypothesis ("there exists a gamma-ray-emitting dark matter particle") is true.

This is like me claiming that I'm not sure if "God matter" exists or emits gamma rays, but I'm going to check it out by pointing at the sky anyway.
 
Sure. Take any inflation theory you like, change the one term "inflation" to "godflation" and tell me how to falsify the topic of "godflation".

The same way you'd falsify inflation. Obviously. The falsification of the hypothesis does not depend on what you call the hypothesis. Why could you possibly think it would?
 
Just in case someone besides Michael Mozina has forgotten the question in question, here it is:

Pick something up off the ground and let it go. I assure you gravity will show up and have an effect on that item. Likewise if you jump up, you will come back down because gravity shows up in the lab and has a tangible effect on real things.

Over-reliance on rhetorical tactics is often a sign of intellectual dishonesty.

It's dishonest of you to attack me personally for your lack of qualification of your idea. Show me where you demonstrated a cause/effect relationship between your invisible entities and the observations in question. You never did. It is dishonest of you to not acknowledge that weakness in your claim.
 
The same way you'd falsify inflation. Obviously. The falsification of the hypothesis does not depend on what you call the hypothesis. Why could you possibly think it would?

So essentially "God did it" is a valid hypothesis and it is completely indistinguishable from what you're calling "science".
 
So essentially "God did it" is a valid hypothesis and it is completely indistinguishable from what you're calling "science".
Why do you persist with this pathetic, rote recitation of completely debunked crap?

God did it is a hypothesis. It is not a testable hypothesis. It generates no testable predictions. Therefore it is not science.
Inflation is a hypothesis. It is a testable hypothesis. It generates testable predictions. Therefore it is science.

The difference is clear. You are trolling.
 
Some bickering posts moved to AAH. Keep it civil everyone.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky
 
You mean like "dark energy", and "dark matter" and Guth's ever magical "inflation"?
?

Hell, you not only made them up,
I didn't make them up. Any of them. Some of them were around before I even existed.

you gave them your own meanings too.
First I made them up then I gave them my own meanings? What was I supposed to do? Make up some terms but give them no meanings. Who would be that ridiculous?

In fact you can't even all agree on their meanings because there are dozen different forms of inflation now.
There are a who knows how many mesons now (certainly more than dozens). I can still precisely define meson. I can still agree with my colleagues on a definition of meson. I can study a pi meson track in a bubble chamber and go this is a meson and my friend at SLAC won't suddenly call me a liar and tell me that the B0 is the one true meson. Do you get the point? Because I certainly don't get yours.
 
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So essentially "God did it" is a valid hypothesis and it is completely indistinguishable from what you're calling "science".

No. Not unless you have a way of quantitatively testing for the existence of God. We have quantitative ways of testing whether there was or was not an inflationary epoch. The difference between "God did it" and inflation could not be more apparent.
 
Some bickering posts moved to AAH. Keep it civil everyone.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5998511#post5998511

Just out of curiosity, why are only my posts being removed and these types of post left on the board?

EU/PC "theory" is a big pile of crap made up of a few dozen little turds that keep being excreted over and over again by its followers. Tim, and others, have already shown that there isn't a single shred of legitimate scientific support. Oh, and you might have missed where he explained how your conflating EU with PC is a dishonest tactic worthy only of ignorant children and lying crackpots.
 
That's the best you can do [...]

All of your wild claims [...]

This is pure propaganda [...]

The fact you refuse [...]

The "actual" problem [...]

Boloney. [...]

FYI, your definition [...]

And the basic problem [...]

You're a one trick [...]

Same question [...]

Actually [...]

False. [...]

If I doubt [...]

Because [...]

I can pilfer [...]

Q is an "". [...]

If I take some [...]

Guth observed [...]

GM doesn't [...]

Not really. [...]

Actually Guth's brand [...]

So "Godflation" did it [...]

This is like me claiming [...]


Several more words and phrases are added to the list below, words and phrases that Michael uses but isn't willing/able to define. There are over 250 terms now. Using terminology and refusing to define it like this is dishonest, equivalent to lying.

Michael applies meanings different than the common usage for the words and phrases that he puts in quote marks. Below is an ongoing list of terms which he has surrounded with quotes but is so far unable or unwilling to define. Until he can define these terms, all of his arguments using any of them amount to meaningless nonsense.

The list...

  • accelerate
  • accelerating
  • acceleration
  • accepted
  • act of faith
  • actual
  • ad hoc
  • assume
  • assumed
  • assumes
  • attractive
  • awful
  • background
  • balance
  • ballpark
  • bang
  • beginning
  • believer
  • Bennett Pinch
  • best
  • better
  • Birkeland current
  • bizarre
  • black hole
  • blind faith
  • brands
  • cathode
  • caught on
  • cause
  • cause/effect
  • challenge
  • check
  • circuit reconnection
  • circuits
  • cold dark matter
  • confused
  • control
  • control mechanism
  • correct
  • cosmic repulsion
  • create
  • creation
  • creation event
  • creativity
  • crock
  • current flow
  • current flows
  • curve fitting
  • custom fit
  • dark
  • dark energies
  • dark energy
  • dark energy did it
  • dark energy goddess
  • dark energy of the gaps
  • dark evil thingies
  • dark exotic matter god
  • dark flow
  • dark matter
  • dark matter of the ever shrinking gaps
  • dead
  • decent
  • demonstrate
  • despicable tactic
  • disconnecting
  • discourse
  • discovery
  • disputed nature
  • divide and conquer
  • dumbing down
  • effect
  • electrical current
  • electromagnetic
  • emotional
  • empirical science
  • empirically
  • empirically demonstrated
  • empirically qualified
  • empirically quantified
  • empty
  • empty space
  • ethical
  • exotic matter
  • exotic matter of the gaps
  • expand
  • expanded
  • expanding
  • expanding space
  • explain
  • explaining
  • explains
  • extra energy
  • failed
  • fairly
  • faithful
  • falsifiable
  • falsification
  • falsified
  • fantasy
  • faster than light expansion
  • fix
  • flavors
  • fuzzy
  • gap
  • get
  • go on believing
  • God matter
  • Godflation
  • gravity
  • guess
  • guessing
  • gumby
  • Guthism
  • hairy inflation
  • hairy moflation
  • hardware
  • have faith
  • hedge your bets
  • hits
  • hope
  • hypothesis
  • ignore the cause of the lambda
  • in the ballpark
  • infinite
  • inflation
  • inflation did it
  • interpret
  • invent
  • invented
  • invisible
  • irrelevant
  • issues
  • it's not my fault
  • lab tested
  • lamba
  • learned
  • lie
  • live and let live
  • logically impossible
  • made it up
  • made up
  • magicflation did it
  • magnetic
  • magnetic flux ropes
  • magnetic flux tubes
  • magnetic helix
  • magnetic reconnection
  • magnetism
  • make believe
  • make it fit
  • make up
  • making up
  • mathematical perfection
  • measurable
  • metaphysical
  • metaphysical baggage
  • missing mass
  • modern
  • modified to fit
  • my terms
  • narrow the range
  • need
  • negative
  • negative charge
  • negative pressure
  • negative pressure in a vacuum
  • negative pressures in a vacuum
  • new
  • new and improved inflation genie
  • no show
  • not having faith
  • observation
  • observational evidence
  • observations in physics
  • observed
  • observed acceleration
  • opaque
  • other mass
  • out there somewhere
  • particle/circuit
  • perfect
  • phobia
  • physical
  • physics
  • physics in general
  • popular
  • positive pressure
  • positive pressure vacuum
  • postdicted
  • postdicting a fit
  • predicted
  • predictions
  • pretend
  • pretend entities
  • primary cause
  • properly
  • properties
  • prophetic
  • pseudoscience
  • pushed
  • put faith
  • qualification
  • qualified
  • qualifier
  • qualify
  • quality
  • quantifier
  • quantify
  • questioned
  • questioning
  • reaching
  • real physics
  • real products
  • reconnect
  • reconnecting
  • relative
  • religion
  • repulsive gravity
  • ruled in
  • sacred
  • scale
  • science
  • sciences
  • scientists
  • simplicity
  • somewhere out there
  • source
  • space
  • space expands
  • spacetime
  • special pleading
  • spin
  • static
  • stretch
  • stretching
  • superiority
  • terminology
  • test
  • testable
  • tested
  • tests
  • theory
  • throw it out
  • too convenient
  • trashed
  • trumped up
  • tweak
  • tweaked
  • tweaked to fit
  • unacceptable
  • unseen
  • unseen entities
  • untestable
  • unusual
  • use
  • valid hypothesis
  • verbal abuse
  • verification
  • verify
  • wimps
  • absolute
  • wind down
  • woo
  • woo with make believe math
  • wrong
  • zero
 
Michael is not a scientist; he is a software developer. I have dabbled in amateur software development. I think that when Michael sees an if/then conditional statement, he interprets it not as a hypothesis, but as code.

In any programming language of your choice, the "if" part of an if/then conditional sets the conditions. The "then" part contains code that is only executed if the condition is true. Execution doesn't occur if the conditional might be true. Execution doesn't occur to test the conditional. Execution only occurs if the conditional really is true.

In other words, from Michael's perspective (we he can't seem to break out of), an "if" statement is really a form of truth statement. It isn't a hypothesis which is tested; it is a truth statement with consequences. That's why he can't get past the "if" part. He thinks you are making a claim and then moving on to execute the "then" portion of the conditional without questioning your initial assumption. He can't wrap his head around the notion that the "then" in this context includes testing the initial condition.

Just out of curiosity, are you a theist or an atheist?
I think D'rok's insight is spot on.

Not only does MM have difficulty with IF ... THEN ... but also TRUE/FALSE (i.e. binary logic).

It's not that there's any problem with MM's use of these, when it comes to software development^, but when he applies these to science he gets things all messed up.

For example, assuming that every "Yes/No" question must have either "Yes" or "No" as an answer is an example of the logical fallacy known as false dichotomy (it may have other names too); logically, both "Neither Yes nor No" and "Both Yes and No" are logically consistent, and valid, answers to a Yes/No question.

Consider this, more general, question:

What is the electron?
a) a particle
b) a wave
c) both a particle and a wave
d) neither a particle nor a wave
e) sometimes a particle, sometimes a wave
f) none of the above
g) all of the above

Now in MM's worldview, every question he asks must have an answer like a) or b) (so it seems).

It gets worse.

As I have said earlier, in MM's worldview scientific facts are both black&white and immortal - gravity exists, helium exists, CDM does not exist, and so on.

In fact, it seems MM's worldview is an almost perfect example of what science is not.

^ there might be, but we have no evidence one way or the other, and in any case, it's irrelevant
 
Pick something up off the ground and let it go. I assure you gravity will show up and have an effect on that item. Likewise if you jump up, you will come back down because gravity shows up in the lab and has a tangible effect on real things.

This is not evidence for gravity any more than it is evidence for the old theory that everything fell towards the centre of the Universe, which people thought was in the middle of the Earth. Proving gravity exists requires quantitative measurement. You need to be able to show that (sticking to strictly Newtonian gravity) the force you feel is proportional to each of your masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between your two centre of masses. This is very difficult to show in a lab.

ETA: There are literally hundreds of thousands of experiments in which gravity does not show up in a lab.
 
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Why do you persist with this pathetic, rote recitation of completely debunked crap?

When will you acknowledge the qualification problems in mainstream theory?

God did it is a hypothesis. It is not a testable hypothesis. It generates no testable predictions. Therefore it is not science.

I've seen all types of folks come up with "testable predictions" about God that were affirmations of the consequent of something already observed.

Inflation is a hypothesis. It is a testable hypothesis. It generates testable predictions. Therefore it is science.

Then "godflation" can make exactly the same set of "predictions" and therefore it's a valid scientific hypothesis too, along with "god energy" and "god matter". If there are no requirements to show any cause/effect relationships, "God did it" is a valid "hypothesis" too, and equally unfalsifiable.

The difference is clear. You are trolling.

The only thing that is clear is that you're utterly ignoring the cause/effect qualification problems of standard theory and refusing to acknowledge the danger in using a logical fallacy to support your claim.
 
It's dishonest of you to attack me personally for your lack of qualification of your idea.
Correction: It would be dishonest of me to attack you personally instead of noting that your argument reeks of rhetorical tactics that are widely associated with dishonest arguments.

Show me where you demonstrated a cause/effect relationship between your invisible entities and the observations in question. You never did. It is dishonest of you to not acknowledge that weakness in your claim.
No, it is dishonest of you to pretend I have claimed any sort of cause/effect relationship between my "invisible entities and the observations in question". For one thing, I don't even know what "invisible entities" you believe I have in my possession. I certainly have not proposed any invisible entities.

Unlike you, however, I am willing to entertain scientific hypotheses, to deduce the consequences of those hypotheses, to design experiments that can test whether those consequences are true, and to reject hypotheses that fail those tests.

I suspect you will not understand the paragraph above, but you're welcome to test my hypothesis by responding to it.
 
I think D'rok's insight is spot on.

No, your evasion continues. You epically failed to demonstrate any cause/effect relationships between:

A) acceleration
B) mass

and any of the following items:

1) inflation
2) dark energy
3) exotic forms of matter

If you refuse to acknowledge your lack of qualification, how is that being "intellectually honest"?
 
Calling someone a little turd is hardly attacking the argument. You'll rationalize anything eh?
Reading comprehension 101. Final exam. One question. Worth 100% of your grade. What does the word "turd" refer to in this sentence:

"EU/PC "theory" is a big pile of crap made up of a few dozen little turds that keep being excreted over and over again by its followers"

a)EU/PC theory
b)EU/PC theory followers
 
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