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Kyrie Irving, Flat Earther

bruto said:
When you fly you don't have to know the earth is round, just as you don't need to know how to fly the plane, but somebody does.
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You may not have to know, but it will be hard to ignore how much farther you can see from a plane, and if you change timezones....

Also if you fly longer trips, you will find that distancec do not match a flat world.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
You may not have to know, but it will be hard to ignore how much farther you can see from a plane, and if you change timezones....

Also if you fly longer trips, you will find that distancec do not match a flat world.

Hans
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Especially in the southern hemisphere. The distances and directions simply don't come anywhere close to reality using the favored "model" of flat earthers (circular earth centered on the north pole with the southern hemisphere outside the equator).

Of course, what the sun and moon do on a daily basis, espcially when setting or rising, don't match what we would see using their model either.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Navigation relies on the earth being a globe and has done for centuries.
Every time a ship or aircraft arrives at it's destination it confirms the earth being a globe.
Every time I use GPS it confirms the earth being a globe.
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That just means that at least a few people responsible for setting up the GPS system have to take into account the roundness of the earth, the heliocentrism, and all the other orbital-mechanical stuff.

But you don't have to know any of that to use GPS. You just plug in your destination and follow the route. Depending on how far you're traveling and how much attention you're paying, you might notice that certain things about your trip don't make sense unless the world is round, but the success of your journey doesn't depend on you knowing or noticing that.

Tolls said:
The effect of the earth's curvature is why ancient peoples who lived on the coast knew the earth was round.

As for the flying part, it's even more noticeable.
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MRC_Hans said:
You may not have to know, but it will be hard to ignore how much farther you can see from a plane, and if you change timezones....

Also if you fly longer trips, you will find that distancec do not match a flat world.
Click to expand...

CORed said:
Especially in the southern hemisphere. The distances and directions simply don't come anywhere close to reality using the favored "model" of flat earthers (circular earth centered on the north pole with the southern hemisphere outside the equator).

Of course, what the sun and moon do on a daily basis, espcially when setting or rising, don't match what we would see using their model either.
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I'm not asking whether it's noticeable. I'm asking a different question.

When was the last time you did something where the success of your endeavor depended on you knowing the world was round, and taking that into account?

When we learned the basics of land navigation in the Army, using military grid maps and techniques, we were taught a simple transform to move between grid north and compass north. This relates to the roundness of the Earth, but successfully navigating across the terrain, or calling in an accurate artillery strike, didn't require actually knowing the Earth was round. It just required having some basic tools (map, compass, ruler) and a basic procedure to follow for using them.

I'm sure airplane pilots can see the curvature of the horizon. But I bet that for navigation, most pilots use some combination of charts, compass, and autopilot, without having to think about the curvature of the Earth or how that affects their route. The chart says, "fly a great circle", but even if you think it's a straight line, as long as you fly it you'll get where you're going.

Most pilots know it's not a straight line, but the success of their journey doesn't depend on them knowing it.
 
MRC_Hans said:
You may not have to know, but it will be hard to ignore how much farther you can see from a plane,
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You would see farther on a flat world as you gain altitude as well. I think the difference in the amount you see on earth vs flat would be very difficult to determine from 30,000 feet.
 
theprestige said:
That just means that at least a few people responsible for setting up the GPS system have to take into account the roundness of the earth, the heliocentrism, and all the other orbital-mechanical stuff.

But you don't have to know any of that to use GPS. You just plug in your destination and follow the route. Depending on how far you're traveling and how much attention you're paying, you might notice that certain things about your trip don't make sense unless the world is round, but the success of your journey doesn't depend on you knowing or noticing that.

I'm not asking whether it's noticeable. I'm asking a different question.

When was the last time you did something where the success of your endeavor depended on you knowing the world was round, and taking that into account?

When we learned the basics of land navigation in the Army, using military grid maps and techniques, we were taught a simple transform to move between grid north and compass north. This relates to the roundness of the Earth, but successfully navigating across the terrain, or calling in an accurate artillery strike, didn't require actually knowing the Earth was round. It just required having some basic tools (map, compass, ruler) and a basic procedure to follow for using them.

I'm sure airplane pilots can see the curvature of the horizon. But I bet that for navigation, most pilots use some combination of charts, compass, and autopilot, without having to think about the curvature of the Earth or how that affects their route. The chart says, "fly a great circle", but even if you think it's a straight line, as long as you fly it you'll get where you're going.

Most pilots know it's not a straight line, but the success of their journey doesn't depend on them knowing it.
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Obviously, you know little of navigation. .. Or pretend to.

But for sure, the average Joe can live most, if not all, of his life without bothering about the shape of Earth. Just as he does not NEED to know much about chemistry, mathematics, computer technology, etc. Heck, he doesn't even have to know what's under the bonnet of his car, as long as he has a good mechanic.

SO what?

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Obviously, you know little of navigation. .. Or pretend to.

But for sure, the average Joe can live most, if not all, of his life without bothering about the shape of Earth. Just as he does not NEED to know much about chemistry, mathematics, computer technology, etc. Heck, he doesn't even have to know what's under the bonnet of his car, as long as he has a good mechanic.

SO what?
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So take chemistry, for another example. There are very few people in the world who actually have to know the underlying quantum-mechanical rules for chemistry. For like 99% of people, it doesn't matter if the atom is quarks and forcefields, or a tiny plum pudding. You could tell them anything at all about the quantum realm, and they could go literally their entire life without having it matter to them.

Same thing with the round Earth. Unless you're a navigator or an orbital mechanic, it might be noticeable, but it doesn't actually matter. For most people, pretty much all of the time, the Earth is flat in every practical sense that matters for their lives.
 
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theprestige said:
*snip*

Same thing with the round Earth. Unless you're a navigator or an orbital mechanic, it might be noticeable, but it doesn't actually matter. For most people, pretty much all of the time, the Earth is flat in every practical sense that matters for their lives.
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Why is it flat? Sure, some people, if they don't care, may go through their lives not noticing the shape of the Earth, but why does that mean it is FLAT to them?

If anybody cares to know, they can easily observe obvious clues of the shape of the Earth for themselves. If they don't care, one would assume they took the accepted paradigm for granted, which means spherical.

Hans.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Why is it flat? Sure, some people, if they don't care, may go through their lives not noticing the shape of the Earth, but why does that mean it is FLAT to them?



If anybody cares to know, they can easily observe obvious clues of the shape of the Earth for themselves. If they don't care, one would assume they took the accepted paradigm for granted, which means spherical.



Hans.
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Doesn't matter if they do or not, is my point.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Matter to .. what? To the shape of Earth? .... I agree.



Hans
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Matter to their lives, or yours. You're behaving as if you have a much bigger stake in this than you actually have. You're also acting like the roundness of the earth is a much more important piece of knowledge than it actually is.
 
theprestige said:
So take chemistry, for another example. There are very few people in the world who actually have to know the underlying quantum-mechanical rules for chemistry. For like 99% of people, it doesn't matter if the atom is quarks and forcefields, or a tiny plum pudding. You could tell them anything at all about the quantum realm, and they could go literally their entire life without having it matter to them.

Same thing with the round Earth. Unless you're a navigator or an orbital mechanic, it might be noticeable, but it doesn't actually matter. For most people, pretty much all of the time, the Earth is flat in every practical sense that matters for their lives.
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I think this is first-world mentality. Where it is so thoroughly second nature it requires no thought at all, you accepted it so long ago and so many other things are contingent upon it implicitly that would be an enormous waste of time to explicitly acknowledge an infinity of times, over and over again.

The sun rises in the east because the earth is spinning towards the sun that direction, and this knowledge is a tremendous underpinning to time zones, tides, geography and maps, the seasons of the year, shipping and travel, the ridiculousness of woo, it is the intellectual structure upon which all your major assumptions about the future are made.

I disagree that quarks are the same kind of knowledge usefullness as the earth being an obloid sphere both spinning and orbiting the sun at the same time.

For women, how to make a sandwich, how to be charming and please men - this is FAR more important than either quarks or the shape of the earth, absolutely. That is a matter of DNA survival, a Darwin Award for the women who can't get that much figured out.

I think we can all agree on at least that much.
 
MRC_Hans said:
You may not have to know, but it will be hard to ignore how much farther you can see from a plane, and if you change timezones....

Also if you fly longer trips, you will find that distancec do not match a flat world.

Hans
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Of course if you look out the window, and if you plot the route, and if you believe your eyes. But in theory at least you could get on the plane and fall asleep and not time it, or even believe some wacko theory that the maps are fake and the interluminati are fooling with the clocks, or just declare that the evidence all around you is fake news, and you'd get there as long as the people flying the plane are sane.
 
theprestige said:
Matter to their lives, or yours. You're behaving as if you have a much bigger stake in this than you actually have. You're also acting like the roundness of the earth is a much more important piece of knowledge than it actually is.
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I think you're right, not only that ignorance about the shape of the earth doesn't matter to most people almost all of the time, but also that ignorance of most things doesn't matter for most people almost all of the time.

The problem is that such ignorance doesn't matter until it does, and we can't really predict ahead of time when it will turn out to matter, so it makes sense to approach the world from a state of thoughtfulness of wanting to know what's true rather than just what feels good. Most of the time it won't matter, but when someone tells you not to vaccinate your children the effect of this worldview, that understanding the underlying nature of reality is important, will turn out to serve you well.
 
Flat Earth is usually tied in with other conspiracy belief.
usually Apollo Hoax, 9/11 truthism, NWO/ Masons/Pope controlling the world.
NASA being part of the NWO propaganda, Gravity is fake etc
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Flat Earth is usually tied in with other conspiracy belief.
usually Apollo Hoax, 9/11 truthism, NWO/ Masons/Pope controlling the world.
NASA being part of the NWO propaganda, Gravity is fake etc
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Mass shootings are faked by the NWO to disarm any resistance, the Ziojew/reptile axis is strangling the world....
 
AlaskaBushPilot said:
...For women, how to make a sandwich, how to be charming and please men - this is FAR more important than either quarks or the shape of the earth, absolutely. That is a matter of DNA survival, a Darwin Award for the women who can't get that much figured out.
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Huh.
Here’s me thinking it was a life choice not to have children, when all the while it was the fact that I’m the cook in my marriage and not my wife.

Might as well throw out my “Kiss the Cook” BBQ apron as well.
That also seems to be a pointless endeavour.
 
theprestige said:
Matter to their lives, or yours. You're behaving as if you have a much bigger stake in this than you actually have. You're also acting like the roundness of the earth is a much more important piece of knowledge than it actually is.
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I have a very big stake in reality. I hope most of us have.

That Earth is a sphere is a fact that helps us understand many things. Distances, navigation, weather systems, and of course the basic facts of how the world functions. Can't be much bigger than that.

In contrast, the flat Earth model defies the laws of physics. It is also inconsistent with what we observe on an everyday basis. It simply makes no sense.

Hans
 
theprestige said:
Matter to their lives, or yours. You're behaving as if you have a much bigger stake in this than you actually have. You're also acting like the roundness of the earth is a much more important piece of knowledge than it actually is.
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I think you're only half right. It's true in one way that the roundness of the earth doesn't make much difference in our lives, just as, say, the quadratic equation or the distance from the moon or the value of pi. You don't have to keep things that are true at the front of your attention, or even in manhy cases to remember them. But denying it is far more important, I think. Because, not to put too fine a point on it, denying it is insane, and that's pretty significant.
 
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