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Kyle Rittenhouse, accused multi-murderer from Kenosha BLM shooting

TurkeysGhost

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TurkeysGhost
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Seems relevant to make a thread for Kyle Rittenhouse, the 17 year old who drove from out of state to carry a rifle at the chaotic protests and riots in Kenosha following the police shooting of Jacob Blake.

Kyle was seen on multiple videos of the events shooting an unarmed protester, then shooting his way to safety as others came to try to apprehend the apparent active shooter.

He shot 3, killing 2. See link for criminal complaint detailing the events

https://www.theherald-news.com/lists/2020/08/28/0314ee2e081c4d00a3aced407b07d2ec/index.xml?page=1

He is charged with:

- 1st degree reckless homicide for the killing of Rosenbaum, the first victim that was shot in the car lot.

- 1st degree intentional homicide of Huber, the man seen trying to stop the fleeing killer with a skateboard.

- 1st degree reckless endangering, for shots that endangered a journalist near the Rosenbaum killing.

- 1st degree attempted homicide, for the maiming of Grosskreutz, another man seen alongside Huber trying to stop the fleeing killer.

- 1st degree reckless endangering, for shots at third unidentified man attempting to stop him in the street alongside Huber and Grosskreutz.

- Possession of a dangerous weapon by a minor. Self explanatory, he was illegally carrying a rifle.


The NYTimes put together a timeline of the night from available live streams and other videos showing Rittenhouse roaming the street with the rifle leading up to the killings.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html


Rittenhouse is being charged as an adult and is being held without bail. Rittenhouse is being proclaimed by right wingers as acting in defense, and so far this seems to be the strategy of his legal defense.

His case has attracted questionable lawyers, such as defamation attorney LL Wood, famous for the Covington case. His case has become a large cause celebre for right wingers who see him as a hero standing up to antifa. His defense attorney, John Pierce, has resigned from the legal defense fundraising org after it was revealed that his firm was deeply in debt to prior creditors.

https://www.wpr.org/rittenhouse-lawyer-resigns-defense-fund
 
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I'm just wondering if he is going to plead guilty or not-guilty. To me this ones seems to be an open and shut case.
 
Darat said:
I'm just wondering if he is going to plead guilty or not-guilty. To me this ones seems to be an open and shut case.
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It may be a while. It's a multiple felony case and there's covid. Who no how long before this thing starts moving.

No bail, so our killer is on ice until then, so he doesn't benefit from delay.
 
Been wondering why Ky-Ky didn't have his own thread.

Any claim of self defense should be 86ed on grounds of disproportionate response. Rosenbaum called him names and yelled at him? Maybe Ky-Ky should avoid confrontational situations if they scare him so badly. Or at least not arm himself and saunter right smack into the middle of one. No one appointed him a militia or private security. He sought out a battle and pissed his pants when he got it. A perfect cautionary tale of why you shouldn't swagger around with rifles in the street.
 
Thermal said:
Been wondering why Ky-Ky didn't have his own thread.

Any claim of self defense should be 86ed on grounds of disproportionate response. Rosenbaum called him names and yelled at him? Maybe Ky-Ky should avoid confrontational situations if they scare him so badly. Or at least not arm himself and saunter right smack into the middle of one. No one appointed him a militia or private security. He sought out a battle and pissed his pants when he got it. A perfect cautionary tale of why you shouldn't swagger around with rifles in the street.
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Yes, I've been thinking this as well. At best Rosenbaum tried to grab the muzzle of his illegally carried gun. That's pretty weak grounds to light him up with rifle fire.

I'm sure his defense will try to slice things down into narrow vignettes that somehow justify self-defense, but the broader picture of the night is very damning. Kyle sought out a situation in which he could kill someone, and then he did. Afterwards, he shot his way out as heroic people tried to stop an active shooter fleeing the scene.

The reckless endangering charge of the journalist seems like an easy guilty, as the journalist describes what sounds like being hit with bullet splatter from Kyle shooting the ground. Obviously he was a minor in possession of a lethal weapon, so another guilty there, but that's a misdemeanor.

It's noteworthy that the maimed man is still alive to testify. Seems likely that he will state on the stand that he, like Huber and the others, were attempting to stop an active shooter. This will be very bad for the self defense claim.

I'm still waiting to see if there will be any criminal charges for adults who facilitated this armed minor. Someone handed him this rifle.
 
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I didn't think it deserved its own thread, but whatever.

Going to another state anticipating shooting people is not my idea of vigilance or keeping the peace. **** him.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Yes, I've been thinking this as well. At best Rosenbaum tried to grab the muzzle of his illegally carried gun. That's pretty weak grounds to light him up with rifle fire.

I'm sure his defense will try to slice things down into narrow vignettes that somehow justify self-defense, but the broader picture of the night is very damning. Kyle sought out a situation in which he could kill someone, and then he did. Afterwards, he shot his way out as heroic people tried to stop an active shooter fleeing the scene.

The reckless endangering charge of the journalist seems like an easy guilty, as the journalist describes what sounds like being hit with bullet splatter from Kyle shooting the ground. Obviously he was a minor in possession of a lethal weapon, so another guilty there, but that's a misdemeanor.

It's noteworthy that the maimed man is still alive to testify. Seems likely that he will state on the stand that he, like Huber and the others, were attempting to stop an active shooter. This will be very bad for the self defense claim.

I'm still waiting to see if there will be any criminal charges for adults who facilitated this armed minor. Someone handed him this rifle.
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Agreed. I'm suspecting he actually transported it himself, to to his pool lifeguard job and graffiti cleanup, then wait till dark to play Captain Kyle. Which would be a whole file full of felonies, I do believe. Unless of course his lawyers would like to elaborate on how a thousand dollar rifle and ammo fell into his hands in a neighboring state.

There is also video of him saying (before he started killing) that it was his 'job' to defend the ruins of the car dealership. Sure would like to know who 'hired' him for that. Seems like some serious charges for whatever adults might be involved in his supply chain
 
Still trying to figure out what LL Wood, a defamation attorney known best for the Covington case, is doing on a felony criminal defense case.

I understand why this fame chasing lawyer might try to glob onto another right wing headline, but what exactly is Kyle getting out of this? Is it purely for PR management and fundraising?
 
As well as state charges, are there likely to be federal charges? For example, if he brought in the gun from his home in Illinois would that be prosecuted by Wisconsin or federal prosecutors?

As others have mentioned, I am curious about how, if his defence is that the gun was in Wisconsin, how it came to be in his possession? Would that not suggest someone issued it to him? If so, who or what organization is legally arming 17-year olds?

I think the rest of his defence hinges on how believable he can make his self-defence claim of the initial killing. Unfortunately, we have seen some pretty lenient views on this in various recent cases such as Zimmerman-Martin where the cops apparently are satisfied that it was self-defence.

I can't see any way that his actions would be considered legal in the UK or elsewhere, but the US is... different.
 
angrysoba said:
As well as state charges, are there likely to be federal charges? For example, if he brought in the gun from his home in Illinois would that be prosecuted by Wisconsin or federal prosecutors?

As others have mentioned, I am curious about how, if his defence is that the gun was in Wisconsin, how it came to be in his possession? Would that not suggest someone issued it to him? If so, who or what organization is legally arming 17-year olds?

I think the rest of his defence hinges on how believable he can make his self-defence claim of the initial killing. Unfortunately, we have seen some pretty lenient views on this in various recent cases such as Zimmerman-Martin where the cops apparently are satisfied that it was self-defence.

I can't see any way that his actions would be considered legal in the UK or elsewhere, but the US is... different.
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Usually, they don't bother with charging for crimes that would lead to much lower sentences compared to the main crime.
So no, there will probably be no federal charges against Rittenhouse.

There might be charges against whoever helped him get and/or transport the weapon.
 
Darat said:
I'm just wondering if he is going to plead guilty or not-guilty. To me this ones seems to be an open and shut case.
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There is always going to be an issue over what degree or type of homicide a homicide is because it depends on a mental state. Even if a self-defense claim fails as a defense it can be used as evidence as to mental state depending on the legal definition of murder.
 
Darat said:
I'm just wondering if he is going to plead guilty or not-guilty. To me this ones seems to be an open and shut case.
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I would assume he is almost assuredly going to plead not-guilty initially. Even in cases with plea deals, many initially plead not guilty and only change their plea after negotiating the terms.
 
it's a bit murky to me

Darat said:
I'm just wondering if he is going to plead guilty or not-guilty. To me this ones seems to be an open and shut case.
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link "The only thing that is clear is that nothing is ever the way it seems." Greg Prickett is a former police officer who now practices law.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I would assume he is almost assuredly going to plead not-guilty initially. Even in cases with plea deals, many initially plead not guilty and only change their plea after negotiating the terms.
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Yup.

I've seen a few people go into a felony arraignment and try to plead guilty. Pleading guilty to a felony requires a lot of inquiry about the plea being knowing and voluntary, which isn't feasible on the spot, so the Judge just enters a not guilty plea on their behalf and advises the person to seek legal counsel.

In practical terms, wanting to plea straight up at an arraignment is strong evidence that the person doesn't understand what is going on.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
link "The only thing that is clear is that nothing is ever the way it seems." Greg Prickett is a former police officer who now practices law.
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He goes into considerable detail over how, assuming no context from earlier events, Rittenhouse's second fatal shot may be considered to be self-defence; but he doesn't even mention the fact that, at the time these events occurred, Rittenhouse had already killed one person, nor does he discuss how this might modify the conclusion that the second shooting was in self-defence. This rather crucial omission leads me to question his conclusion.

Dave
 
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