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kurious_kathy explain this.

If anything he should be forgiving 'Himself' for having inflicted upon you such a life to begin with shouldn't he?
 
Taffer said:
I'm sorry, Kathy, and I in no way mean to make light of any events that took place in your childhood, but I find this pathetic. Why, in all honesty, must God forgive you? What kind of divine being must forgive you for being a victim? What kind of god must forgive you for the way you were born? What kind of god forgives a serial killer who repents on his deathbed, but not a gay aid worker who spent her entire life helping others? To me this sounds like a cruel, capricious being who is not worthy or deserving of our worship.
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Bear in mind, Taffer, this is the self-same god that requires rapists to marry the girl. So, making the victim of pedaphilia need forgivness isn't all that foreign.

[cheap shot]Grew up Catholic, did you, Kathy?[/CS]
 
OH, F***!

God forgave YOU!?!?! WTF!?!?!

That's it. I'm done. When I get in off the road, I'll explain my thoughts in another thread. I'll split it from this one, but that's it. I'm done. This is just plain bullsh**. THE VICTIM IS NOT THE ONE WHO NEEDS FORGIVENESS!

And people wonder why I'm leaning more toward agnosticism and atheism.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Sling it is definately hard to understand why God shows more mercy and grace to some, but maybe not others. I hear you.

And I wish you had not brought up the idea of a pedifile. I myself was a victim as a child. But what I found is God forgave me..
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You were the victim of a sexual predator....

and God forgave YOU?

Wow. I have to think about this.
So children who get raped or molested are sinners?

You know, it's been kind of amusing to bait you and listen to you bleat, but now you have crossed a very serious line.

I was molested from ages 8 to 14. And now you tell me I need to ask forgiveness because three different men tried to have sex with me over the course of 6 years? Just what did I do wrong, what sin did I commit, while I was being held down and stripped naked and used to gratify the sexual desires of 40 year-old men?

Oh wait. I remember now. You're the one who thinks it's equally my fault that my first husband was an alcoholic and cocaine addict and liked to beat me in between his visits to church.
 
slingblade said:
You were the victim of a sexual predator....

and God forgave YOU?

Wow. I have to think about this.
So children who get raped or molested are sinners?

You know, it's been kind of amusing to bait you and listen to you bleat, but now you have crossed a very serious line.

I was molested from ages 8 to 14. And now you tell me I need to ask forgiveness because three different men tried to have sex with me over the course of 6 years? Just what did I do wrong, what sin did I commit, while I was being held down and stripped naked and used to gratify the sexual desires of 40 year-old men?

Oh wait. I remember now. You're the one who thinks it's equally my fault that my first husband was an alcoholic and cocaine addict and liked to beat me in between his visits to church.
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*hug*
 
kurious_kathy said:
And I wish you had not brought up the idea of a pedifile. I myself was a victim as a child. But what I found is God forgave me..and because of his love I can forgive the other people that have hurt me much of my life. I don't want to go into too much detail about it. But I can tell you the 3 pedifiles in my childhood I feel sorry for.
***
I now know somehow all things work to the good for those who love the Lord. And I'm sure everyone here knows by now that I LOVE JESUS!!
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Maybe you love Jesus, but he obviously doesn't much like you, if he and God sent you not one, but three pedophiles in your childhood. What a nice guy.
 
Kathy, it's a damn shame that happens to anybody, BUT...you still don't get out of answering philosophical questions just on pity!

Once again. Do you believe that it is ethical to force an unmarried victim to marry her rapist? And if you do not, then do you reject the passage of the Bible (Deuteronomy 22:28) that orders this to be done?

Either God's law is a terrible and disgusting one, or it's ethically correct to force rapists--including, one would assume, pedophiles--to marry their unmarried victims. Which one do you believe it is?

I'm not lettin' this one go until you address the question. If you're NOT willing to answer, feel free to state clearly that you do not have an answer you're comfortable with.
 
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KK Still hasn't told us what adultry is in the context of the Bible..

In other words, if we are to obey God, we must know what he meant when he said " Thou shalt not commit adultry .. ".

( No help now, from the peanut gallery, I want KK to answer this one.. )
 
slingblade said:
Thank you, Tobias.

Kathy needs a hug, too. How very sad for her. I hate that she, or any woman or man, would feel that guilty over being a victim.
Just breaks my heart.
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What I hate is that there are monsters who will find justifications for making (their) victims feel guilty, and making them perpetuate this monstruosity. "Those who (are made to) believe absurdities will (be made to) commit atrocities" indeed.

And a big hug to all victims.
 
fowlsound said:
We're not reading anything into the "if she does not please him?"
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Yes, you are misreading that line as well. My translation is "if she is displeasing in the eyes of her master, who should have designated her for himself, he shall assist in her redemption; he shall not have the power to sell her to a strange man, for he had betrayed her." It is clear that this means that if he decides not to marry her, he will assist with her freedom rather than selling her as a servant to anther man. It says nothing about sex at all.

Remember that the girl in question is Jewish (part of the passage you quoted are laws that pertain to the father of the girl), and I believe that for a Jewish man to have sex with a Jewish girl to whom he isn't married is considered adultery in the OT.

-Bri
 
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I'm afraid I agree with ursulaV here kathy. You don't get a pity walk from answering direct questions.

now:

again...

Are you going to answer freakshow's direct question? Or mine in the other thread? How about avhienda's very simple and direct question?


Or UrsulaV's?


Skip the prosletyzing and get with the answers.

Or get off the damn board.
 
Flo said:
What I hate is that there are monsters who will find justifications for making (their) victims feel guilty, and making them perpetuate this monstruosity. "Those who (are made to) believe absurdities will (be made to) commit atrocities" indeed.

And a big hug to all victims.
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I suggest a hug for the victims without evisceration for the perpetrators is somewhat pointless..
 
Diogenes said:
I suggest a hug for the victims without evisceration for the perpetrators is somewhat pointless..
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I'm against evisceration, it attracts flies. I tend to favor more traditional sanctions, like kicking them in the backside until they smell of garlic (old family saying: "botte-lui le cul jusqu'à ce que ça sente l'ail") ;)
 
Bri said:
..........................
Remember that the girl in question is Jewish (part of the passage you quoted are laws that pertain to the father of the girl), and I believe that for a Jewish man to have sex with a Jewish girl to whom he isn't married is considered adultery in the OT.

-Bri
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Well, we are giving away part, if not all, of the answer that we wanted KK to actually do some biblical research to come up with; but since it is highly improbable that this will actually happen, we might as well let the cat out of the bag.. ( insert kitten pic here )

It is my understanding that adultry involved having sex with a married Jewish woman. It didn't matter if the man was married or not.

The problem, was a married Jewish woman giving birth to a child and not knowing who the father was..
Screwed up that lineage thing, who begat who and all that..

And don't think for a second, that Jesus didn't know what adultry was, when he gave the " .. If you even think about it .. " speech..

An important point here, is that contrary to popular ( or unpopular, depending on your perspective ) belief, God had no problem with married Jewish men getting all the strange they could manage ( via rape or otherwise ) , as long as it was not with a married ( to someone else ) Jewish woman..

There were exceptions of course, like when your brother was shooting blanks; but that's a whole nother topic..
 
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slingblade said:
You were the victim of a sexual predator....

and God forgave YOU?

Wow. I have to think about this.
So children who get raped or molested are sinners?

You know, it's been kind of amusing to bait you and listen to you bleat, but now you have crossed a very serious line.

I was molested from ages 8 to 14. And now you tell me I need to ask forgiveness because three different men tried to have sex with me over the course of 6 years? Just what did I do wrong, what sin did I commit, while I was being held down and stripped naked and used to gratify the sexual desires of 40 year-old men?

Oh wait. I remember now. You're the one who thinks it's equally my fault that my first husband was an alcoholic and cocaine addict and liked to beat me in between his visits to church.
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No I'm not say God forgave me for someone elses sin. I saying that later in life I had some unhealthy area that developed in my own life, perhaps from being a victim at a young age, but never the less I had sex out of wedlock with more than one man ( and not at the same time either) when I bacame an adult. These are the things that added pain to my life. Sex outside of marriage causes many heartaches in peoples lives. Wouldn't you agree?
And I am not trying to justify my past sins at all. I just new I needed God's help to stop doing the things in my life that were adding to my pain. To me God warnes us about sin for a reason. He knows it hurts us. In Christ now I see a huge difference in not wanting to do the things I once thought were acceptable. Sex outside of marriage is not ok, and yet in our society people say it's perfectly acceptable. To me this is just not true anymore.

And as far as your ex who was an addict. Sounds to me like you both were a lot younger and going through struggles like so many of us do. I just say it is important to be able forgive oneanother. Do you think this is bad philosophy?
 
slingblade said:
Just what did I do wrong, what sin did I commit, while I was being held down and stripped naked and used to gratify the sexual desires of 40 year-old men?

Oh wait. I remember now. You're the one who thinks it's equally my fault that my first husband was an alcoholic and cocaine addict and liked to beat me in between his visits to church.
Click to expand...
I did not say you did anything to deserve this. But look at the perpatrators. Isn't it obvious to you that they sinned against you? It's terrible to think so many evil things people do without even the slightest bit of remorse for it.

And when you bring up the point of drugs and alcohol...well these things always lead to even more evil in the world. People are not only totally irrashinal when then are high...but in my opinion they are controlled by their demons. This is just the way I can't help but look at it or see it.

And I do believe what scripture tells us about spiritual warfare...
Ephesians 6: 10-12
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I did not say you did anything to deserve this. But look at the perpatrators. Isn't it obvious to you that they sinned against you? It's terrible to think so many evil things people do without even the slightest bit of remorse for it.

And when you bring up the point of drugs and alcohol...well these things always lead to even more evil in the world. People are not only totally irrashinal when then are high...but in my opinion they are controlled by their demons. This is just the way I can't help but look at it or see it.

And I do believe what scripture tells us about spiritual warfare...
Ephesians 6: 10-12
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Click to expand...


again...

Are you going to answer freakshow's direct question? Or mine in the other thread? How about avhienda's very simple and direct question?


Or UrsulaV's?


Skip the prosletyzing and get with the answers.



You don't seem to understand something:

You said you would not preach here. You said that you would stop that and actually engage in discussion. your husband said this also. You are now proving yourself a liar. now answer direct questions.



Your logical fallacies this time were:

Appeal to authority and argument from incredulity.
 
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