Korean War - 65th anniversary

[Galaxie]

Yes, I know I'm posting this a few days early. Hopefully this thread can be a catch-all for any Korean War discussions.

On June 25th 1950, North Korean forces under Kim Il Sung with the reluctant backing of Stalin crossed the 38th parallel quickly routing the unprepared and under-supplied South Korean and US troops. In desperation, a defensive perimeter was established and held around Pusan which stopped the North's offensive. From that point on, the war escalated with US reinforcements, numerous UN forces, Chinese forces, and eventually Soviet pilots & advisers entering the country. A stalemate ensued which ultimately cost the lives of about 1.2 million people, many of them civilians.

Despite 3 years of brutal fighting and no official end to the conflict, today the Korean War is best remembered for being...not remembered.

 

[Galaxie]

On a personal note, my grandfather was a Corporal in the 536th Engineer Maintenance Company during the war. He passed away in late April just two weeks shy of his 85th birthday. He rarely talked about the war and now I regret that I didn't ask him about it more often. While my grandfather was not a front line soldier, he was not spared from witnessing the atrocities of war. I will do my best to relate one story he did tell me below. Please note it is rather gruesome:

One day, my grandfather and two other soldiers came upon a large group of South Koreans gathered around a tree. Approaching the group, he could see there was a man tied to the tree. The mans arms were extended behind him around the trunk and what appeared to be a wire was wrapped around his wrists. From what my grandfather could gather, this man was a traitor or Northern collaborator. Suddenly, someone from the crowd doused the man with gasoline and lit him on fire. The man screamed and thrashed in agony. The wire must have been loose because the man's arms came free and in sheer terror he clawed at the flames covering his face, tearing his burned flesh.

That's where my grandfather ended the story. He said it was the most horrifying thing he had ever witnessed. Afterward, he said he felt guilty that he didn't do anything to stop it, but one wonders how three unarmed men who didn't speak the language could have dissuaded a mob bent on revenge. I've often wondered what other terrible things he experienced during the war because there was one time when he was hospitalized with a serious infection following a surgery in which he hallucinated Chinese troops attacking through the walls.

After the war, my grandfather got married, raised 6 kids, had many grandchildren, and even got to see a great-great-grandchild before he passed. He worked several jobs, usually in supervisor roles, while also being a part time dairy farmer. In retirement, he served as the local VFW Post Commander for a few years until his bad knees and heart issues prevented further duties. I'm told he was a tough, intimidating man in his younger years but I will always remember him as a big teddy bear who liked to tell jokes and loved watching Westerns. Rest in peace Grandpa.

 

[Spindrift]

Yes, I know I'm posting this a few days early. Hopefully this thread can be a catch-all for any Korean War discussions.

On June 25th 1950, North Korean forces under Kim Il Sung with the reluctant backing of Stalin crossed the 38th parallel quickly routing the unprepared and under-supplied South Korean and US troops. In desperation, a defensive perimeter was established and held around Pusan which stopped the North's offensive. From that point on, the war escalated with US reinforcements, numerous UN forces, Chinese forces, and eventually Soviet pilots & advisers entering the country. A stalemate ensued which ultimately cost the lives of about 1.2 million people, many of them civilians.

Despite 3 years of brutal fighting and no official end to the conflict, today the Korean War is best remembered for being...not remembered.

It's best remembered for M*A*S*H.

My father was career regular Army back then. He had served in WWII and Korea. After many years he would talk about WWII. The only thing he ever said about Korea was, it was too damn hot and too damn cold.

In the early 1960's he somehow found out his unit was going to Vietnam. He put in his retirement papers the next day. I later asked him why he retired. He said, "I served in two wars, it was someone else's turn".

 

[pgwenthold]

My dad was an FO (forward observer) with the 25th Infantry (he went over as part of the 24th, but when he got to Japan, the 25th was getting thin so they moved him over), so was on the front lines. He got there in late 52/early 53 or so.

He's never told too many stories about any action so much, but more about situations and circumstances. Like when one of the guys in his outfit saw a gas can at the bottom of the hill one day and decided he was going venture out and grab it (in full view of the enemy).

There was another story of when they got a new guy in, a black guy from West Virginia. He showed up all and he did was hid in the back of the foxhole. Dad and others are like, "You have to come out and do this," but he says, "I's a scared mother-**********." I don't remember if they ever got him to do anything.

Dad spent a lot of time in Japan. I've got all the letters he sent back home, and it kind of gives a story of where he is, although he never told anyone back home that he was on the front line when he was there. One letter talks about how he was getting moved back, and the points he would be getting when that happened, but that it was less than before. If you read between the lines, you'd figure out that where he was must have been pretty serious, because if he got that many points after moving back, he must of have been in a pretty high-point situation before.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Your casualty numbers seem to be way too low. The English wikipedia says 2.5 million civilians and at least half a million soldiers. The German wikipedia even says more than 4 million deaths with less than one million of them soldiers. And of the total 2,5 million dead North Koreans about 500,000 to 1 million, almost all civilians, died alone in the US bombing (450.000 tons incl. 32.357 tons of Napalm) following the stalemate.

 

[Spindrift]

Your casualty numbers seem to be way too low. The English wikipedia says 2.5 million civilians and at least half a million soldiers. The German wikipedia even says more than 4 million deaths with less than one million of them soldiers. And of the total 2,5 million dead North Koreans about 500,000 to 1 million, almost all civilians, died alone in the US bombing (450.000 tons incl. 32.357 tons of Napalm) following the stalemate.

Got a link?

This says 1.2 million dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Korean_War#Casualties

Casualties is not the same as killed.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Got a link?

This says 1.2 million dead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Korean_War#Casualties

Casualties is not the same as killed.

That contradicts what's stated at the end of the "info bar" at the top right of the article (cannot be linked to):

Casualties and losses

["South"]
Total: 178,426 dead and 32,925 missing
Total wounded: 566,434

["North"]
Total dead: 367,283–750,282
Total wounded: 686,500–789,000

Total civilians killed/wounded: 2.5 million (est.)[13]
South Korea: 990,968
373,599 killed[13]
229,625 wounded[13]
387,744 abducted/missing[13]
North Korea: 1,550,000 (est.)[13]

German: Casualties, Damage through bombing, Deaths through bombing after stalemate. Source is a scholary work: Steininger, Der vergessene Krieg, München, 2006

 

[Spindrift]

That contradicts what's stated at the end of the "info bar" at the top right of the article (cannot be linked to):




German: Casualties, Damage through bombing. Source is a scholary work: Steininger, Der vergessene Krieg, München, 2006

Maybe not. The 1.2 million is battle deaths. That may not include civilian deaths.

 

[Galaxie]

Your casualty numbers seem to be way too low. The English wikipedia says 2.5 million civilians and at least half a million soldiers. The German wikipedia even says more than 4 million deaths with less than one million of them soldiers. And of the total 2,5 million dead North Koreans about 500,000 to 1 million, almost all civilians, died alone in the US bombing (450.000 tons incl. 32.357 tons of Napalm) following the stalemate.

You may be right. There is a breakdown of numbers by source in this link:
http://necrometrics.com/20c1m.htm#Ko Note that some of those numbers do not include civilians.

ETA: Didn't see the other two posts above before posting this. Looks like it's fair to say there were at least 2.8 million deaths.

 

[BStrong]

My father and uncle both served in the Corps in Korea, the second war for my uncle, and both made it home.

All wars are ugly, but Korea was uglier than some.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Maybe not. The 1.2 million is battle deaths. That may not include civilian deaths.

Ok, and the 2,5 million civilians mentioned at the top are including wounded, so maybe the two parts fit together somehow. The German number over 4 million is even excluding the around one million battle deaths, I've now seen.

 

[Bikewer]

I was old enough when the war started to worry that dad might have to go back into the army; he was a WWII vet. Parents told me not to worry.
Read quite a lot about the air war since I was heavily involved in flight sims and general air war history....The dawn of the jet age, the first jet-on-jet combat, the intrusion of politics into the war....Fascinating stuff.
Some time back, a rather excellent flight sim called "Mig Alley" was released....You could fly ground-support in a P-51 or battle Migs in a Sabre.... Game had some of the best AI I ever encountered in a flight sim.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I know next to nothing about this war but always wanted to read up, so I used the opportunity to dig a bit. Read a piece by Andre Vltchek, who mentioned an Australian war reporter who "lost his citizenship and became ‘an enemy of the Australian people’, partially because he dared to describe the suffering of the North Korean people", a certain Wilfred Burchett who started after WWII to cover the wars "from the other side". Dug some more and found his complete book on the Korea war, written and published before it ended. "This Monstrous War", 292 pages authorized PDF (2,3 Mb) of a 2013 US edition. Says page two:

This is the first time this book is appearing in the United States. According to Gavan McCormack, “in the United States the entire consignment of the book (500 copies) was seized by US Customs and dumped in the sea on its arrival in that country late in the same year (1953), and as a result no major American library possesses a copy to this day.”

I think I'll take a look at that. Sounds fascinating.

 

[Galaxie]

In case anyone was wondering how North Korea marked the anniversary:
http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-war-anniversary-climax-anti-us-fervor-141645084.html#

 

[SpitfireIX]

My uncle was drafted in 1950. Fortunately for our family, he was sent to Europe, and spent the war helping to deter the Soviets there.