"Kill him" allegation at Palin event unfounded.

[MattusMaximus]

I see no reason to doubt the Secret Service's assertion on this.

Ditto. This, of course, doesn't excuse those shouting "terrorist" and other wonderful things about Obama at those McCain rallies. McCain stepped back and changed his tone for a reason, folks.

ETA: Excellent remarks, Cleon!

 

[fuelair]

I was thinking of starting a thread like this myself when I saw this news.

I can't help but feel that this is a very serious and bold claim, and should really demand some kind of tangible evidence (or at the very least, some corroboration between multiple trustworthy sources, such as reporters at the event), before being simply accepted as accurate.

I know in the minds of those who are convinced that most on the right are racists, such a burden of proof may not be required. But it should be. This is a serious allegation.

I could probably dig up dozens of anecdotal tales of people (even reporters) who have seen UFO's. Their stories wouldn't fly here without evidence.

If it was just started by someone without any merit, that is indefensible and irresponsible.

I don't doubt the possiblity that this really happened. But I find that it was accepted as factual far too quickly and easily.

This whole thing bothers me greatly.

I have never assumed that republickers are racists - they seem to be against everyone who is concerned about people over businesses regardless of color or religion. If you ain't a Rotarian you ain't worth bothering about.

 

[Peephole]

They're saying boo-urns, boo-urns!

Ditto. This, of course, doesn't excuse those shouting "terrorist" and other wonderful things about Obama at those McCain rallies. McCain stepped back and changed his tone for a reason, folks.

ETA: Excellent remarks, Cleon!

Yes, he stepped back and started making robocalls.

"Hello. I'm calling for John McCain and the RNC because you need to know that Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. capitol, the Pentagon, a judge's home and killed Americans."

 

[BenBurch]

Ben, you're no different than they are. Together, you are the problem.
...

In case you have not figured it out yet, I mostly say these things to annoy the crap out of the hardcore Repubs. Their buttons are *so* easy to push and they react in ways that are, frankly, hilarious.

But, seriously, calling an honorable domestic political opponent a terrorist is really beyond the pale, don't you think? I had hoped to goad one of them into defending that position before having to explain myself to you sort of spoiled the setup.

 

[Cleon]

In case you have not figured it out yet, I mostly say these things to annoy the crap out of the hardcore Repubs. Their buttons are *so* easy to push and they react in ways that are, frankly, hilarious.

So you're trolling? Yes, that's so much better.

 

[epeos76]

Randfan, do you think the treatment of the story by the Post and other, larger papers was unethical? Should they have waited for more cooberation before publishing? Or are you just irritated that new evidence of this type likely won't have much effect on public opinion about the incident?

 

[BenBurch]

So you're trolling? Yes, that's so much better.

To an extent, but usually I can get them to show themselves by arguing these positions and that is the value in it. Making them defend the indefensible takes off all the protective coloration they adopt in the hopes of selling us once again on their anti-liberty, anti-middle-class, anti-equality, anti-american agenda.

You support gun rights, correct? As do I. Who do you think ordered the seizure of guns in and around New Orleans after Katrina? It was George Bush. Without warrant. Without probable cause. Simply martial law. That is not American. That is not Liberty. That is not right.

And that is just one example of how these guys talk the talk to win votes and then screw us once in office.

Ronald Reagan is another one; He preached balanced budgets, and continued to throughout his time in office, but he was responsible for what was, before GWB, the biggest run-up in deficit spending in history.

And look at "fiscal conservative" GWB? Trillions. Trillions in debt that we have no idea how many years it will take to pay and where the interest on it alone would have run the whole government in 1980.

Contrast that to "Tax and Spend" liberal William Jefferson Clinton? When he left office the biggest problem in government was how to best deal with the huge surplus in tax revenues. (Clue: the right answer was retiring Reagan's debt. *sigh*)

So you say its tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum, but I clearly see a difference between the two dominant parties, and I have chosen which one to work with to make things better in this country. No, the Democratic Party is not perfect; far from it! I have chosen to get involved in it, at great personal expense, to CHANGE it from the inside and make it more perfect and to improve this country now and for posterity. And I really do believe that eight more years of the kind of rights-disrespecting, debt-accumulating, war-starting, corporation-enriching policies beloved by the Repubs would do this great nation in.

So, the choice is pretty stark. Choose to help the side that does least harm, or choose to help the side that does most harm.

Which is it?

 

[Peephole]

Randfan, do you think the treatment of the story by the Post and other, larger papers was unethical? Should they have waited for more cooberation before publishing? Or are you just irritated that new evidence of this type likely won't have much effect on public opinion about the incident?

Actually, if I understand correctly, Milbank's report of "kill him" wasn't the one the Secret Service was investigating.

It's this that they were investigating:
http://www.scrantontimes.com/articles/2008/10/14/news/doc48f4ba8994588930223377.txt

 

[joobz]

They didn't shout "Kill him."
They clearly shouted, "to blave." Which, as everybody knows means "To bluff". It seems clear to me that the McCain supporters were calling Obama's bluff.

 

[Cicero]

Maybe because incitement to violence can lead to violence?

By the way, your avatar seems to be making fun of the fact that McCain can't lift his arms very high. That is tactless.

Not to long ago in Oliver's country lifting one's arm high was a sign of political solidarity and blind devotion to one leader. Maybe Oliver is just feeling nostalgic?

 

[RandFan]

Hi, I'm from the Secret Service. I'm investigating whether someone made a threat against Barack Obama. Did anyone hear anything?

No?

So much for that.

Yes, because the Secret Service are idiots and don't know how to gather data.

So now the press says there are two incidents of "Kill him" being yelled out at a Palin rally. When you look at some of the people getting unfettered access to a video camera, is it really all that surprising?

But, RandFan, you go ahead and believe what the Secret Service said, even though they're appealing to their own authority to prove that negative.

As skeptics shouldn't we expect evidence? Is speculation really the coin of our realm? Are you really making a CT claim?

 

[RandFan]

In case you have not figured it out yet, I mostly say these things to annoy the crap out of the hardcore Repubs. Their buttons are *so* easy to push and they react in ways that are, frankly, hilarious.

That's really true of both sides and one can troll for emotional responses from any quarter. I don't think that is appropriate.

But, seriously, calling an honorable domestic political opponent a terrorist is really beyond the pale, don't you think? I had hoped to goad one of them into defending that position before having to explain myself to you sort of spoiled the setup.

Who called Obama a terrorist? I thought the point was one of Obama's decision making. If you assume the premise (I don't) then Obama is making is showing poor critical thinking skills to hang out with Ayers.

 

[dudalb]

That's really true of both sides and one can troll for emotional responses from any quarter. I don't think that is appropriate.

Who called Obama a terrorist? I thought the point was one of Obama's decision making. If you assume the premise (I don't) then Obama is making is showing poor critical thinking skills to hang out with Ayers.

100% agreed.
Hey, Guaranteed, I could push the buttons of all hardcore Libs here in about five minutes if I wanted too. ANd it they deny they have buttons that can be pushed they are lying.
Obama was pretty much a novice at politics when he knew Ayers. If he could do it all over again you bet he would not have gone to that house meeting.
BTW I am now hearing that Ayers has recanted his violence.If he did it , and it was not since this has become an issue, then he is just another 60's radical who has become respectable.

 

[dudalb]

Ditto. This, of course, doesn't excuse those shouting "terrorist" and other wonderful things about Obama at those McCain rallies. McCain stepped back and changed his tone for a reason, folks.

ETA: Excellent remarks, Cleon!

There is enough evidence that some of McCain's supporters are way over the top even without the "Kill Him" statement.

And Ben should remember that when you go a trolling you end up looking a lot sillier then the people you are trying to get a rise out of.

 

[RandFan]

So, the choice is pretty stark. Choose to help the side that does least harm, or choose to help the side that does most harm.

Which is it?

A false dichotomy. And it's a bit naive given the history of America and not to mention my biggest pet peeve. That there is a party out there that is inherently better than another. That's nonsense. Political parties are made up of people. If there was actually an ideology that was the best we could simply figure out what that is and we could get rid of all others. The founding fathers of America knew that was horse s*** which is why they didn't do any such thing.

I could accept an argument that currently the Democratic party is far more likely to move America in the direction that most of us want to go. It's more likely to increase quality of life for Americans and protect Americans against some very nasty social ills like theocracy.

That would be a reasonable argument and I would support you if that were the case. However, the idea that Republicans are somehow inherently bad in a way that Democrats aren't is just nonsense.

Ben, don't drink the Kool-aid. Stay a skeptical and critical thinker.

 

[RandFan]

...then he is just another 60's radical who has become respectable.

Politicians, prostitutes and radicals. Given enough time they all become respectable.

 

[Upchurch]

They didn't shout "Kill him."
They clearly shouted, "to blave." Which, as everybody knows means "To bluff". It seems clear to me that the McCain supporters were calling Obama's bluff.

Dammit, I nearly choked on that one.

 

[RandFan]

Dammit, I nearly choked on that one.

I just watched Princess Bride last weekend. Damn funny.

 

[dudalb]

I just watched Princess Bride last weekend. Damn funny.

You had not seen it before?

You probably noted that film gets quoted a LOT around here.
And Remember, Never Bet Against A Sicilian When Death Is On The Line....

 

[Cleon]

You had not seen it before?

Inconceivable!