Kids possessed?

[Eos of the Eons]

How can anyone, nuts or not, ever think their kid is 'possessed' and in need of an 'exorcism'???

I've heard of 4 kids dying that way now, and in the last few years. Those are just the ones I've heard of.

How?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

[geni]

You don't like the way your kid is behaving and you don't want to blame it on yourself or your kids (you also don't want to accept that is how some kid behave). So you look for an excuse within your world view and follow where it leads.

(Warning I have no experance with children so the above should be taken with a pinch of salt the size of a small astroid)

 

[sorgoth]

How can anyone, nuts or not, ever think their kid is 'possessed' and in need of an 'exorcism'???

I've heard of 4 kids dying that way now, and in the last few years. Those are just the ones I've heard of.

How?

I just can't wrap my head around it.

My grandfather thought I was possessed.

Yes, I was that bad.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

You don't like the way your kid is behaving and you don't want to blame it on yourself or your kids (you also don't want to accept that is how some kid behave). So you look for an excuse within your world view and follow where it leads.

(Warning I have no experance with children so the above should be taken with a pinch of salt the size of a small astroid)

You know, that kinda sounds plausible. I'm grasping for something that can make me understand. My son would qualify as "possessed", but at least I know better. We have worked hard to get him where he is at today.

Parents in denial and too lazy to get real help, looking for simple answers. Makes sense.

 

[Beanbag]

You are dealing with people who blindly have accepted what their religious authority figures have told them. They've surrendered their ability to think for themselves (if they ever had it) and have swallowed that load of codswallop contained in religious doctrine.

There was an example a few years back where a group of sisters gouged out the eyes of one of their siblings (these were supposedly adults, at least chronologically) because she was posessed, and the blinded sister actually supported and defended their actions.

Demonic posession and the existance of Satan are critical to Christianity. As it is often said, "no Devil, no God." I rather like this idea. You could get rid of both of them by denying the existance of just one. Talk about economy.

I can recommend an interesting book by R.F. Baumeister: "Evil: Inside Human Violence and Cruelty," ISBN 0-7167-3567-9. Chapter 6, entitled "True Believers and Idealists" is particularly enlightening.

Regards;
Beanbag

 

[triadboy]

In the real old days, anyone with a mental problem was possessed. No one knew about brain juices. That paradigm seems to have carried over: if one acts abnormal and has good xian parents - something is wrong. Something is forcing the child to resist Jebus: Satan.

 

[DVFinn]

There are a few deaths by exorcism every year. If you live in a culture where you're taught your whole life that demonic possession is a reality and a priest, the ultimate worldly authority figure, telld you a demon has inhabited your child, then an excorcism seems like a natural step.

The current pope isn't helping, having recently updated the excorcism rites of the Catholic church and even participating last year in an excorcism ritual.

Irrational belief systems lead to irraional acts. The paent probably loved their child and thought they were doing what was best.

Religion has to go.

 

[T'ai Chi]

There are a few deaths by exorcism every year.

What is a "few"?

Irrational belief systems lead to irraional acts.

They can, they don't necessarily though.

Irrational beliefs can lead to irrational acts.
Irrational beliefs can lead to rational acts.
Rational beliefs can lead to irrational acts.
Rational beliefs can lead to rational acts.

Religion has to go.

Yeah, better to sweep all the good its done and doing under the rug. Everyone should be forced to be an atheist.

 

[fishbob]

My son would qualify as "possessed", but at least I know better. We have worked hard to get him where he is at today.

You work and work and work, and finally start to see some progress, then forget to make one measley payment and the kid gets reposessed.

 

[Zep]

You work and work and work, and finally start to see some progress, then forget to make one measley payment and the kid gets reposessed.

Da-boom TISH!

But seriously! Someone HAD to go that route, and it was nicely done too!

 

[BillyJoe]

There was an example a few years back where a group of sisters gouged out the eyes of one of their siblings....because she was posessed, and the blinded sister actually supported and defended their actions.

Blind belief?

BillyJoe
(Yeah, that was in poor taste, sorry)

 

[Eos of the Eons]

You work and work and work, and finally start to see some progress, then forget to make one measley payment and the kid gets reposessed.

Eh? No, my son will always have tourettes. We're just lucky that there are schools with smaller class sizes for kids with behaviours. I don't pay anyone to see him or anything. He is on meds though, and yeah, if he stopped taking them, I would be chewing my nails off.

The current pope isn't helping, having recently updated the excorcism rites of the Catholic church and even participating last year in an excorcism ritual.

What????? &*&*&*@* &#*@@* $&*@&#*

I didn't freakin know that! There are exorcism rites? He "updated" them? WTF?

That's it, the pope is useless @$$&@!*, I never thought the pope was much of anything before, but now he's downright insane and dangerous.

***shakes head in disgust***

And I thought this was mostly a scientology thing, boy was I wrong

 

[DVFinn]

What is a "few"?

I admit I overstated, I found only 5 over the last 8 years in the US, however it is a more prevelant occurence in other countries. I apologise for the incomplete answer, I'll add more if and when I can find some statistics.

quote:
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Irrational belief systems lead to irrational acts.

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They can, they don't necessarily though.

Irrational beliefs can lead to irrational acts.
Irrational beliefs can lead to rational acts.
Rational beliefs can lead to irrational acts.
Rational beliefs can lead to rational acts

Which do you think is the most likely though?

quote:
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Religion has to go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yeah, better to sweep all the good its done and doing under the rug. Everyone should be forced to be an atheist.

I never mentioned forcing people to do or believe anything, nor would I endorse any such action. I respect your disagreement with my opinions but I would appreciate it is you would argue against what I said, not your own speculation as to what I meant.

I hope (foolishly) that someday our species will move beyond their primitive superstitions, but forced belief/disbelief is not an option for a free society.

I merely meant that religion does more harm than good to the world. Charitable works are wonderful, but you dont need superstitious nonsense to justify them. There are rational and moral reasons to be charitable. How many people are imprisoned, tortured and slaughtered every year based on religion? How much knowledge has been destroyed in the name of heresy over the centuries? Exorcism is but one noticeable example.

 

[Chaos]

Eh? No, my son will always have tourettes. We're just lucky that there are schools with smaller class sizes for kids with behaviours. I don't pay anyone to see him or anything. He is on meds though, and yeah, if he stopped taking them, I would be chewing my nails off.



What????? &*&*&*@* &#*@@* $&*@&#*

I didn't freakin know that! There are exorcism rites? He "updated" them? WTF?

That's it, the pope is useless @$$&@!*, I never thought the pope was much of anything before, but now he's downright insane and dangerous.

***shakes head in disgust***

And I thought this was mostly a scientology thing, boy was I wrong

No, sadly, the catholic church still does exorcism rites. As far as I know, there are priests that are specifically trained to do this. They are actively mostly in Italy and Spain (which are VERY catholic countries).

By the way, the Holy Inquisition also still exists - you know, those witch-burning guys. They call themselves "Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith", headed by the Austrian cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

The church also still operated the "Index Librorum Prohibitorum", the List of Forbidden Books - books which catholics are forbidden to have, let alone read, because their content endangers the faith (or something like that).


As you can see, the Dead Prophet´s Society is still firmly entrenched in the Middle Ages. Don´t you just love them?

 

[Eos of the Eons]

No, sadly, the catholic church still does exorcism rites. As far as I know, there are priests that are specifically trained to do this. They are actively mostly in Italy and Spain (which are VERY catholic countries).

By the way, the Holy Inquisition also still exists - you know, those witch-burning guys. They call themselves "Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith", headed by the Austrian cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

The church also still operated the "Index Librorum Prohibitorum", the List of Forbidden Books - books which catholics are forbidden to have, let alone read, because their content endangers the faith (or something like that).


As you can see, the Dead Prophet´s Society is still firmly entrenched in the Middle Ages. Don´t you just love them?

***shudders***

 

[BillyJoe]

Eos,

A lad around the corner from where we used to live had Tourette Syndrome. He used to constantly use obscenities involuntarily and without context, just dropping them out as single isolated words rather than as part of his speech. His favourites were "c*nt" and "prick". They would drop out while you were speaking to him. These words were generally used appropriately to the sex of the person speaking to him. Embarrassingly, I got a "c*nt" on one occasion. However, when he started taking medication, the obscenities stopped immediately and he seemed no different to anyone else. I can't remember exactly but I think the medication was Largactil.

BillyJoe

 

[Jas]

Hmmm...the only use I can think of for an exorcism is as a placebo (ie. someone who is mentally ill that has had a very religious upbringing). Although I still don't think that it would be a good idea.

On the Christianity.com boards, I recently saw a thread where people talked about exorcisms they had participated in. It seems dangerous to me. Not because of the, uh, 'spiritual' aspect, but because, well, the people who decide that someone needs an exorcism, are generally scary people (IMHO)

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Hey, another Canadian, Jas, and an Albertan at that!

I don't think I could be brave enough at the moment to actually read about the subject on a fundy board. Your anecdote scares me even more, thank you for the warning.

My son never says words. He instead makes noises, all kinds of them. He has a bad temper too, and some ADHD symptoms. I'm sure glad I'm not religious, I wouldn't have been able to help him the way I have to get him to settle into a classroom environment and make a few friends. He's very bossy and aggressive. Easy to frustrate when trying to do...anything.

His meds are more for the behaviour end. Only 50% of the boys with tourettes get the ADHD type problems. Others will get obsessive compulsive disorder, or learning disabilities. I don't know which of the is the most 'preferable', but it's not like I got a say in what my son got Some don't get anything but the tics. My son has the noises plus he rolls his eyes and parts of his body move involuntarily.

His meds caused a huge change in him. He actually started liking human contact and you could reason with him. He was still very symptomatic, but at least he could start joining the human race in ways.

I'm sure fundies into exorcism would still try something with him. Ugh. The thought scares the crap outta me. Anything that crazy would have made him worse.

Too bad the practice can't be outlawed. What would happen if they tried to make it illegal (you know, in a perfect world)?

 

[sorgoth]

Too bad the practice can't be outlawed. What would happen if they tried to make it illegal (you know, in a perfect world)?

Then they would do it illegally, because they believe it is right.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Then they would do it illegally, because they believe it is right.

Right right, I remember videos now that were shown. Bibles were illegal, and they fought to the death defending their rights to read them/distribute them. In the end, the "good guys" won. I think some rapture like thing happened. It's the right thing to do, so die doing it or you're going to hell.

Bleah.