Kid gets suspended after standing up to bully

[GeeMack]

Don't know - different person, different crowd. I'd say getting the snot kicked out of me would have had an impact, sure.

Then apparently we all agree, even those with experience being a bully, that kicking the bully's ass was the right thing for the victim to do.

As for blaming the victim, your continued suggestion that he should have used another method to kick the bully's ass is the same thing as suggesting he shouldn't have taken the particular and successful course of action that he did. It's blaming him for choosing one response over another, a response that you deem to have been more dangerous to the bully.

Most of us, maybe even all of us who weren't bullies, don't accept that the victim was in a position to make a choice that you seem to believe he should have made. I blame the bully. If he would have died, I probably still would blame him. I can't understand the mindset in wanting a bully's victim to go easier on him. But then I've never been a bully.

 

[qayak]

I have no problem with fistfights. I've seen plenty and been in a few (DESPITE my upbringing). Yes, there is a possibility that severe injury can occur, but if it that were common, I think there would be a high death injury from fistfights.

Bare knuckles = go for it.

Rolls of quarters tucked in your palms = excessive.

There are distinctions when it comes to fighting what some would consider a 'fair' fight.

That's incorrect. Two people agreeing to a fight is completely different than one person attacking another. One is a fist fight the other is self defense. In self defence there is no such thing as a fair fight, the object is survival. You bully pal got his ass handed to him, and deserved it, get over it.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Who said anything about boxing?

I don't know if you've ever been punched in the nose, but if you aren't a seasoned fighter, it tends to take the wind out of your sails.

By what method did you think he should broken the nose?

 

[IDB87]

What if the larger kid could not land a blow to the bully's face? Maybe the bully is faster, reaction wise. The kid being bullied used what he had.

For some reason I'm picturing the victim picking up the kid and walking away with him, haha.

No, fair enough question, and we'll never know. I would say it wouldn't be impossible to grab him by the shirt and deliver the blow, but sure, he probably didn't think about it.

And by the way, the bully was dropped on his front, not on his back. (Minor correction)

Yeah, thanks for that. The head is still worrisome though.

 

[rwguinn]

...

Meaning he wasn't in any sort of serious danger, which in my opinion does not warrant an attack that could potentially cripple the bully. Nothing wrong with a bloody nose or something, but that's me

After you had already accused someone of:

You seem to be looking at this situation with some seriously biased hind-sight.

The problem I see is that the victim was much bigger, controlled the situation, and used excessive force against someone who was (seemingly) more of a bother than a threat.

So big guys are just supposed to take it?

 

[IDB87]

Let me use my psychic powers to explain the problem here: you don't have a goddamn clue what you're talking about.

You took up a position either as devil's advocate or because you thought it was right

Or because I don't like seeing kids that age fighting like that? And of course I'll think my opinion is right.

Now you're desperately scrabbling around trying to score points instead of saying "Hmm, this issue seems to be more complex than I thought. I'd best go away and think about this."

It's certainly a complex issue - but apparently we can just wrap it up by boasting about how good and satisfying it is to see a victim fight back.

If you want to continue the discussion rationally, you can answer my questions and stop trying to score points.

How about you share some of that codeine?

 

[IDB87]

That's incorrect. Two people agreeing to a fight is completely different than one person attacking another.

I never said the victim had to ask the kid to a fair-fight, only that a fistfight would be preferred.

In self defence there is no such thing as a fair fight, the object is survival. You bully pal got his ass handed to him, and deserved it, get over it.

The object is survival - how laughable.

Was the kids life in danger from that first punch (or at any point)? Was he jumped? Was his life threatened? What's the deal here?

If you can convince me that it was a matter of survival, I'll pay-pal everyone enough money for a six-pack .

 

[qayak]

Cool. Did you do 'a lot worse' to kids who posed no real threat to you?

Posed no real threat to me in the same sense that this bully posed no real threat to the victim, you mean? Absolutely.

I can't really push an opinion as some sort of bully prevention - I've said this whole thread that the situation could have had the same outcome with a good helping of fisticuffs.

No, it couldn't. If the bigger victim had of duked it out and lost, the bullying would have gotten worse and the bully would have become known as a tough guy. This way, the victim defended himself, the bully got his ass kicked and will think long and hard before pulling that again because his reputation is shot.

 

[IDB87]

As for blaming the victim, your continued suggestion that he should have used another method to kick the bully's ass is the same thing as suggesting he shouldn't have taken the particular and successful course of action that he did. It's blaming him for choosing one response over another, a response that you deem to have been more dangerous to the bully.

Success is the only thing that matters in this fight for survival. GeeMack, do you think there's a level of excessive violence that can come about in a fight like this?

I can't understand the mindset in wanting a bully's victim to go easier on him. But then I've never been a bully.

I never said he should 'go easy'. I said I would PREFER TO SEE fighting that would not possibly result in a cracked skull leaking brains or a messed up spine.

But that's me.

 

[qayak]

I never said the victim had to ask the kid to a fair-fight, only that a fistfight would be preferred.

You don't get it at all. You want to see a fight and the victim wants to be left alone. Why should he have to fight and run the risk of losing just to satisfy your screwed up view of the world?

He responded with appropriate force and ended the encounter. No fight, just an intended victim defending himself.

ETA: You actually see in the video why boxing isn't a good idea. That's what the bully tried and it got him slammed.

The object is survival - how laughable.

Laugh all you want but if you think self defence involves going out and getting into fist fights, you're an idiot.

Was the kids life in danger from that first punch (or at any point)? Was he jumped? Was his life threatened? What's the deal here?

Yes. Anytime you get punched in the face, you face the danger of grievous bodily injury and even death. That's the deal.

I don't know where you live but in Canada there is a sliding scale of force that goes vocal, open hand, closed fist, weapons, chokes. When you are defending yourself there is no requirement that your response be "weighed to a nicety." And the benefit of the doubt always goes to the one defending themself.

If you can convince me that it was a matter of survival, I'll pay-pal everyone enough money for a six-pack.

I think your lack of experience in violent encounters is showing through. Go read what I said. I said the object of self defence is not to engage in a fist fight, it is to survive any encounter with the least damage possible. That might mean letting someone slap you around and then walking home or it might mean picking up the bully andslamming him on the concrete. That's up to the victim to decide not the armchair cowboys who think their boyhood scuffles are the limit of acceptable violence.

 

[qayak]

I never said he should 'go easy'. I said I would PREFER TO SEE fighting that would not possibly result in a cracked skull leaking brains or a messed up spine.

But that's me.

Then you should stick to watching boxing matches and leave the self defence to people who know what they are doing, like the victim in this case.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I never said the victim had to ask the kid to a fair-fight, only that a fistfight would be preferred.



The object is survival - how laughable.

Was the kids life in danger from that first punch (or at any point)? Was he jumped? Was his life threatened? What's the deal here?

If you can convince me that it was a matter of survival, I'll pay-pal everyone enough money for a six-pack .

So boxing its the only recourse?

 

[332nd]

Would have been interesting to see what would've happened if that older kid had come a few seconds earlier.

True.

The problem I see is that the victim was much bigger, controlled the situation, and used excessive force against someone who was (seemingly) more of a bother than a threat.

Not enough information to make that call really.

 

[332nd]

What if the larger kid could not land a blow to the bully's face?
Maybe the bully is faster, reaction wise. The kid being bullied used what he had.

And by the way, the bully was dropped on his front, not on his back. (Minor correction)

Yeah, the pro wrestling move is called the Dominator ftr.

 

[qayak]

Would have been interesting to see what would've happened if that older kid had come a few seconds earlier.

From the looks of the video he was standing there watching the whole time.

 

[qayak]

Not enough information to make that call really.

Actually, there is. Watch the video. The victim didn't have control until after the bully was slammed.

 

[332nd]

Actually, there is. Watch the video. The victim didn't have control until after the bully was slammed.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear, I was referring to "more of a bother than a threat."

 

[Checkmite]

Ummm....no. Guys, how old is the "bully" here...9? He doesn't "deserve" to get spinal injuries or broken bones any more than than the bigger kid who body slammed him deserved to be punched in the face. What the hell is wrong with you?

For real - look, and I know somebody's going to come back with "when I was little I was picked on by bullies yadda yadda"...that's sad, but now you're an adult who has grown past it; and getting all horny over vicarious childhood revenge fantasies while watching videos of young children actually injuring each other is frankly disturbing to say the least.

 

[Checkmite]

Additionally, I don't see how anybody can criticize the school for suspending the bigger kid over this. They were presented with a scenario with one big, uninjured kid and a smaller, skinny, obviously physically-weaker kid who could barely walk after an altercation. There's absolutely no other context by which to judge - the cell phone video does not in any way rule out the possibility that the bigger kid started it, and the story about the littler one being some kind of "bully" is nothing but unsupported hearsay which the school had no choice but to reject in the interest of fairness and impartiality. How do YOU know the smaller kid wasn't "finally" standing up to the much bigger bully?

 

[thaiboxerken]

Additionally, I don't see how anybody can criticize the school for suspending the bigger kid over this. They were presented with a scenario with one big, uninjured kid and a smaller, skinny, obviously physically-weaker kid who could barely walk after an altercation. There's absolutely no other context by which to judge - the cell phone video does not in any way rule out the possibility that the bigger kid started it, and the story about the littler one being some kind of "bully" is nothing but unsupported hearsay which the school had no choice but to reject in the interest of fairness and impartiality. How do YOU know the smaller kid wasn't "finally" standing up to the much bigger bully?

Spoken by a true Republican, thank you.