• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Ken Ham Challenges Pat Robertson To Debate YEC

Via RightWingWatch:
Creation Museum founder Ken Ham is once again furious that Pat Robertson has mocked proponents of Young Earth Creationism, and now wants to appear on the “700 Club” to debate the televangelist.


Yes, please. This must happen.

Yes, please.
With live streaming and popcorn.



Pat Robertson's apostasy can be summed as follows:
Now if the world were millions of years old as suggested by evolutionists, blood was shed and death occurred before Adam's original sin. This would destroy the foundation of the atonement brought by the death of Christ on the cross.



Good point, Ken Ham. If we start believing the earth is billions of years old, then it definitely calls into question a literal interpretation of the bible.

Yes, this seems to be the YEC position-no original sin, no atonement. One of my colleagues is a YEC and simply digs in their heels at this point.
We now discuss recipes, not religious issues.
 
Alternately, he's a conman who gets rich off of convincing people to believe things. There is, sadly, no shortage of people who buy much of what he's selling, though.


Of course those aren't necessarily mutually exclusive categories. I would say he is all of the above, namely a troll who entertains himself while conning the gullible. I think the first line under his "What We Believe" section proves him a troll;

Ham said:
The King James Bible is the inspired, infallible, inerrant word of the living God. It is true and scientifically accurate from cover to cover.


With the first sentence he is baiting all but the most hard-line fundamentalist Christians into a flame war, and with the second sentence he is baiting all non-Christians into a flame war. As for the hard-line fundamentalists themselves, both sentences collectively bait them into opening their wallets. Truly Ken Ham is a master baiter.
 
Though it's hard to pick which one is whackier, I think Robertson is - dare I say it - 'smarter'
I don't think it is hard at all. By fundie standards Robertson is entirely sane and not at all stupid. Unfortunately, as others already pointed out, he is a flaming bigot.
 
One Stage, Two Cracked Crocks.

Can either hold water?

Clearly not - both are completely full of feces so there is no room for water beyond that sufficient to bond the solid components together.
 
I don't think it is hard at all. By fundie standards Robertson is entirely sane and not at all stupid. Unfortunately, as others already pointed out, he is a flaming bigot.

At least that will keep the feces I noted warm and flexible.
 
Dia will be for the ages.
Dis gon b good.

fresh-prince-and-carlton-dance.gif
 
He's right, though. And it's one of the things that bother me about the Catholics' "well, we're not taking it LITERALLY" act, even without getting into the sheer retardedness of some catholic or another thinking he's the atheists' (next) best friend for not being a literallist.

The story of how God made some NPCs, which then acted against his wish, which caused all sorts of deadly stuff (and I mean, literally viruses and bacteria becoming harmful... although the former couldn't be anything else to start with, and telomeres starting working... although it could never ever be otherwise, and animals starting being carnivorous... although they were obviously meant to be so in the first place, etc), and he got pissed off instead of fixing his scripting, and he hates you for being the 3000'th generation descendant of those, unless you accept his impregnating a virgin with himself, so he can sacrifice himself to himself, so he can forgive you for THAT thing you personally had no part in... is already retarded. I may call the Catholic version even more frikken retarded, but make no mistake, the literalist version makes no frikken sense whatsoever either.

But once you accept that none of that actually existed, and Adam or Eve couldn't POSSIBLY be the actual source of death and suffering, because it was going on for 2-3 billion years before anything even remotely sharing the same shape even existed... then the whole original sin idiocy becomes even more idiotic. Then God hates you for... what? For some piss-poor metaphor that he once used, using some fictive characters that never existed, and which don't even fit the timeline to be responsible for anything in that story?

I mean, it's already idiotic to hold some people responsible and ask them to atone for what an ancestor 6000 years ago did. We don't start hauling people to jail because one of their ancestors 2000 years ago was some Roman or Gaul or Germanic slaver, do we? Or to ask them to atone for that by letting an innocent be punished.

But holding them responsible for what some FICTIVE characters did, in a metaphoric story that not only is accepted as fictive, but it's not even in the right timeline to be responsible for the blame assigned to that? How frakking stupid is THAT?

I mean, it's not even like holding you responsible for what an actual ancestor of yours actually did, it's like holding you responsible for what Kirk does in the last Star Trek movie. THAT incredibly, stupefyingly, stonkingly, mind-bogglingly stupid that is.

And yet that's exactly what the "oh noes, we're your (next) best buddies because we don't take that LITERALLY" proposition boils down to. Accepting that something never actually happened, it was just a piss-poor metaphor to make some over-simplified point to some primitive people that would never understand the real story, BUT YOU'RE BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ANYWAY.

And I'm not even getting into the two thousands of years of misogyny, and the church STILL not accepting women on account of what Paul thought about Eve being the deceived one... WHILE ACCEPTING THAT EVE DIDN'T EVEN EXIST. How unbelievably moronic it is to base a discrimination against real people on a character that you acknowledge as fictive, and only there to make an allegorical point about something else? I mean, it's literally like basing a discrimination against step mothers on Snow White. Or imagine someone were to rationalize discriminating against fathers, based on Star Wars. THAT stupid.

Yes, the literalist version is retarded, but sticking to all those doctrines while being a non-literalist, i.e., acknowledging that none of that actually happened, is retarded squared.

And I'll even take Ken Ham saying it, because it just has to be said. And it ends up a case of "well, it has to be cretinous thing A, because otherwise it's cretinous thing B", well, even better. Then essentially the whole Christianity has ad-absurdum-ed itself.
 
I would be very interested to see how 6000 years of photons between us and Andromeda are distributed, especially in light of of being able to observe processes, such as eclipsing binary stars in real time.

Simple, our solar system is surrounded by black holes, semiconductors, and refracting glass. Much like Ken Ham's brain. Hardly anything gets in.
 
He's right, though. And it's one of the things that bother me about the Catholics' "well, we're not taking it LITERALLY" act, even without getting into the sheer retardedness of some catholic or another thinking he's the atheists' (next) best friend for not being a literallist.

The story of how God made some NPCs, which then acted against his wish, which caused all sorts of deadly stuff (and I mean, literally viruses and bacteria becoming harmful... although the former couldn't be anything else to start with, and telomeres starting working... although it could never ever be otherwise, and animals starting being carnivorous... although they were obviously meant to be so in the first place, etc), and he got pissed off instead of fixing his scripting, and he hates you for being the 3000'th generation descendant of those, unless you accept his impregnating a virgin with himself, so he can sacrifice himself to himself, so he can forgive you for THAT thing you personally had no part in... is already retarded. I may call the Catholic version even more frikken retarded, but make no mistake, the literalist version makes no frikken sense whatsoever either.

But once you accept that none of that actually existed, and Adam or Eve couldn't POSSIBLY be the actual source of death and suffering, because it was going on for 2-3 billion years before anything even remotely sharing the same shape even existed... then the whole original sin idiocy becomes even more idiotic. Then God hates you for... what? For some piss-poor metaphor that he once used, using some fictive characters that never existed, and which don't even fit the timeline to be responsible for anything in that story?

I mean, it's already idiotic to hold some people responsible and ask them to atone for what an ancestor 6000 years ago did. We don't start hauling people to jail because one of their ancestors 2000 years ago was some Roman or Gaul or Germanic slaver, do we? Or to ask them to atone for that by letting an innocent be punished.

But holding them responsible for what some FICTIVE characters did, in a metaphoric story that not only is accepted as fictive, but it's not even in the right timeline to be responsible for the blame assigned to that? How frakking stupid is THAT?

I mean, it's not even like holding you responsible for what an actual ancestor of yours actually did, it's like holding you responsible for what Kirk does in the last Star Trek movie. THAT incredibly, stupefyingly, stonkingly, mind-bogglingly stupid that is.

And yet that's exactly what the "oh noes, we're your (next) best buddies because we don't take that LITERALLY" proposition boils down to. Accepting that something never actually happened, it was just a piss-poor metaphor to make some over-simplified point to some primitive people that would never understand the real story, BUT YOU'RE BEING HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR IT ANYWAY.

And I'm not even getting into the two thousands of years of misogyny, and the church STILL not accepting women on account of what Paul thought about Eve being the deceived one... WHILE ACCEPTING THAT EVE DIDN'T EVEN EXIST. How unbelievably moronic it is to base a discrimination against real people on a character that you acknowledge as fictive, and only there to make an allegorical point about something else? I mean, it's literally like basing a discrimination against step mothers on Snow White. Or imagine someone were to rationalize discriminating against fathers, based on Star Wars. THAT stupid.

Yes, the literalist version is retarded, but sticking to all those doctrines while being a non-literalist, i.e., acknowledging that none of that actually happened, is retarded squared.

And I'll even take Ken Ham saying it, because it just has to be said. And it ends up a case of "well, it has to be cretinous thing A, because otherwise it's cretinous thing B", well, even better. Then essentially the whole Christianity has ad-absurdum-ed itself.

Nominated...

I can't recall reading anything that comes close to summarising the whole insane nonsense.

Thanks, Hans!
 
I would be very interested to see how 6000 years of photons between us and Andromeda are distributed, especially in light of of being able to observe processes, such as eclipsing binary stars in real time.

Simple, our solar system is surrounded by black holes, semiconductors, and refracting glass. Much like Ken Ham's brain. Hardly anything gets in.

Simpler yet is to consider all that junk floating in outer space as irrelevant.
After all, Christ died for our salvation, not that of weird space monsters.
 
I would be very interested to see how 6000 years of photons between us and Andromeda are distributed, especially in light of of being able to observe processes, such as eclipsing binary stars in real time.

I think I actually saw a YEC argue once that the speed of light used to be a lot faster in the old days and that was how all that light from millions of light years away could get here in just 6000 years.

Seems legit...
 
"You have to deaf, dumb and blind to think that this Earth that we live in only has 6,000 years of existence." - Pat Robertson, 13 May 2014

It must be the End Times. I agree with Pat Robertson.

But the Ken Ham’s of the world do have a real problem because for them an historical Adam and Eve are absolutely central to the truth claims of the Christian faith. The parts of Scripture claimed to be wrong are responsible for the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, such as Original Sin. Without Adam and Eve and their blatant disregard of the Tree Rule, there would be no need for the Atonement for human sin and deliverance from the sins of humanity by the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. And if we don’t need saving why Jesus?! :eye-poppi
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom