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Karl Rove exonerated

Great. When someone actually exposes an abuse of power by the government that involves breaking a law, you might have a point. So far though, the exposure of the NSA and banking programs served no other pupose than to be a political hatchet job by reporters who have been known in the past for their anti-administration stand and who frequently use their reporting credentials as their personal political bully-pulpit.

And the real consistency here is that all of the disclosures hurt our intelligence options, with the Plame disclosure seemingly the least damaging of all. Yet somehow you see the disclosures that did greater damage to our intelligence collection capabilities as a "good" thing while harping about Plame.

That, good sir, is inconsistency.
I am not measuring the leaks by what they do to our policy options--by that standard, the Plame leak is the lesser evil.

I measure them by whether they occurred in pursuit of national interest. For the NYT, it is arguable. For Valerie Plame, it is not.
 
Not to concede that no laws were broken, since even Arlen Specter seems to think that the NSA thing was over the line, but why should the question of technical legal violation determine whether a leak is "good" or "bad"? And how is a potential leaker even to know whether the law is being broken in a particular case? Even granting that the NSA thing is a close call, there are legitimate arguments to be made that the administration policy is illegal; how do you propose that an employee with information regarding such a program, who may or may not be a lawyer, make that determination?

The "breach of law" standard for judging leaks is a silly rationalization for Republican apologists who want to pretend that there's nothing wrong with widespread government wiretapping, CIA kidnapping, and networks of secret prisons, so long as a case can be made that no laws were technically violated. As a lawyer, I can assure you that some case can be made that no technical violation occurred even in the most egregious of circumstances. We all know an abuse of government power when we see it, and the key distinction between the Rove incident and the NSA, etc., incidents is that in the former case, the leak itself was an instance of governmental abuse, whereas in the latter, the leak was an attempt at rectifying an existing abuse.
BPSCG already beat me to the punchline, in that "whistleblowing" as a certain political faction tends to refer to it, actually requires following a particular written, legal protocol. Running to the press and disclosing classified information is not only the wrong way to go about whistleblowing, it crosses some ethical lines and reeks, in this case, of blatantly partisan politics.

And aren't those the very same issues that the left complains about in the Plame case? If so, why aren't they crying out to frog march those responsible for leaking the NSA and banking programs to the press? It very much seems to be a case of "Do as I say, but not as I do." and that sort of hypocrisy is what has driven myself and many other moderates away from the left in recent years. So far it hasn't driven me into the conservative camp, but I'm having a very tough time these days trying to determine exactly who is the lesser of the two evils.
 
I am not measuring the leaks by what they do to our policy options--by that standard, the Plame leak is the lesser evil.

I measure them by whether they occurred in pursuit of national interest. For the NYT, it is arguable. For Valerie Plame, it is not.
Sure, Plame was a political attack on Wilson by the Bush admin. Wilson's story in the NY Times Op-Ed was a political attack on Bush. Not to mention that Wilson misrepresented what he "didn't find."

Besides, it never seemed to me that the goal was outing Plame. The motivation for mentioning her was to show a possible nepotistic reason why Wilson was selected for the trip to Niger in the first place. I doubt anyone would imagine that a woman married to a high-profile US ambassador and who drove to CIA headquarters in Langley everyday would be an covert CIA operative. One would think the CIA would take a bit more care in guarding the potential identification of their operatives. That's not to mention that either Plame herself or Wilson had already made her CIA status known to her own brother and one other family member, who I can't remember off hand at the moment, long before Novak made her position public knowledge. You may think there's no harm in that as it's only family, but it's still a huge breech of protocol.
 
Please bear in mind that, as I've posted elsewhere, the banking story was also reported by the Wall Street Journal. You need to reconcile that fact with your description of this story as a "...political hatchet job by reporters who have been known in the past for their anti-administration stand."
 
Please bear in mind that, as I've posted elsewhere, the banking story was also reported by the Wall Street Journal. You need to reconcile that fact with your description of this story as a "...political hatchet job by reporters who have been known in the past for their anti-administration stand."
The WSJ is fairly well known to be an admin lapdog and would've backed down if so requested. But if the NY Times and LA Times were going ahead with the story anyway, what would it matter?
 
Please bear in mind that, as I've posted elsewhere, the banking story was also reported by the Wall Street Journal. You need to reconcile that fact with your description of this story as a "...political hatchet job by reporters who have been known in the past for their anti-administration stand."

What is the banking story...? I'm out of touch...
 
As a lawyer, you must also know that the correct answer to your question at the end of the first paragraph above is "He doesn't make that determination. He contacts his agency Inspector General's office and they make that determination."

Your answer would appear to be, "He contacts The New York Times andThe Washington Post."
Do we know that did not happen? (That is a genuine question; I have not followed this story closely.) What should be done if the reported illegal (or improper) behavior continues and appears to have management approval?
 
What should be done if the reported illegal (or improper) behavior continues and appears to have management approval?
You contact the U.S. attorney's office.

Mind you, this is all assuming you know something illegal is going on. If you're not sure whether it's legal or not, at some point you have to trust your IG's office to do their job, the same way people trust you to do your job, and at that point, you say, "Okay, I've done what I was supposed to do, and I have to assume investigations are being made that I may not be privy to. In any case I'm no legal expert, and I have no idea what kind of damage I might be doing by getting this printed on the front pages."

You don't go to the NYT or the WP and tell them, "Hey I think something improper may be going on in this national security program. Why don't you splash it all over your front pages so we can find out if it's illegal or not?"
 
You contact the U.S. attorney's office.

Mind you, this is all assuming you know something illegal is going on. If you're not sure whether it's legal or not, at some point you have to trust your IG's office to do their job, the same way people trust you to do your job, and at that point, you say, "Okay, I've done what I was supposed to do, and I have to assume investigations are being made that I may not be privy to. In any case I'm no legal expert, and I have no idea what kind of damage I might be doing by getting this printed on the front pages."

You don't go to the NYT or the WP and tell them, "Hey I think something improper may be going on in this national security program. Why don't you splash it all over your front pages so we can find out if it's illegal or not?"

I like the way you think. I am voting for BPSCG in the next election. :D
 
All I can say BPSCG is that you have a lot more confidence in the process than I do, especially when issues reach the political appointment level. But you're on the inside and I am not so either that gives you much better insight than I or you are part of the problem. I'll go with the former until I read of another cock up by Shrub and friends.
 

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