Kanye West

[KillerBob]

I'm not so sure the post is irrelevant. I don't usually listen to people who are hypocrites. Do as I say and not as I do seems to me hollow. I started a thread myself questioning the response to this disaster. I think the issue worthy of discussion. However I think folks in glass houses ought not to throw rocks.

In the context of the discussion it would still be an ad hominem because the OP was about whether anyone thought the venue was an appropriate soapbox, not whether or not that person or their views were correct or not.

For the point I brought up, it doesn't really matter if the allegations were made by Kanye West, MLK Jr., or Spiderman.

Regardless of the validity of the statements, I believe it was an extremely stupid time and place to say what he did. I think that dropping a controversial statement like that in the middle of a program that's all about making people emotional enough to open their wallets will end up having the opposite effect on a lot of them.


Probably the last thing we need is another thread on racism relating to hurricane relief, but if that is the path this thread is going to go down, then I'd have to say that I have a hard time agreeing with his statements on that level also.

With all the coordination it takes to pull off a relief effort of this size, it would have to mean that the attitude of "who cares about the blacks in New Orleans" would have to have played into the thought processes of a whole lot of leaders on the local, state, and national levels. Virtually everyone dropped the ball on this and no one really showed that they were ready for it, including the City of New Orleans government which has a lot of black leadership. Nagin can complain up the ladder all he wants, but the New Orleans city services weren't just overwhelmed, they were completely unprepared like everyone else.

So I think a lot of people have a lot to answer for regarding the slow response, but you'd have a hard time selling me on the idea that racism was the driving factor behind it.

 

[KillerBob]

Re: Re: Kanye West

Inevitable, sure. "Worth Exploring?", I really don't think so. They're doing what they can. The flooding was an unexpected twist that caught everyone by surprise.

I believe the possibility of racism is always worth exploring, hell, we're exploring it right now. I didn't mean that I was endorsing governmental committees, etc., if that's what it sounded like. I just meant that the topic's always worth discussing.

I don't think it was an apporopriate soapbox. He was there to convince people to send money and support. And unfortunately, a lot of the big money out there is going to be offended by his remarks. They probably fit into his statements somewhere. The cheapshot on Bush certainly didn't help.
And it made him look really stupid, especially since he hadn't even bothered to gather his thoughts before opening his mouth. He couldn't even put sentences together. He made no sense whatsoever.

Mike Meyers did an outstanding job of keeping his cool, up until the "Bush" statement, when he shot him a glance.

Agreed, and thanks for answering the topic!

 

[CapelDodger]

Kanye's wrong.


Dubya don't hate no black folks!


Dubya hates poor people!

What Orwell said.

Kanye's fallen for the race con. It's not about race it's about class.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Kanye's fallen for the race con. It's not about race it's about class.

How about region? If this had happened in, say, California, would the response have been faster and better? Or in New England? Perhaps there's an anti-Southern element at work as well.

 

[Number Six]

I just watched the whole thing...I can't help but laugh a little bit because it's just funny. But he said "George Bush doesn't care about black people" rather than "George Bush hates black people"...why was I thinking I heard he had said the latter? Regardless it was foolish for him to say it. But actually I thought the more incendiary statement was that the rescuers or military or whoever was going down there had been given permission to shoot people. What was that about? That was the part that made me laugh, perhaps because I wasn't expecting it.

I wonder what he'd have said if they hadn't cut away.

 

[Ryokan]

I'm not so sure the post is irrelevant. I don't usually listen to people who are hypocrites. Do as I say and not as I do seems to me hollow. I started a thread myself questioning the response to this disaster. I think the issue worthy of discussion. However I think folks in glass houses ought not to throw rocks.

The difference is that it's Bush's job to care.

 

[a_unique_person]

What Orwell said.

Kanye's fallen for the race con. It's not about race it's about class.

It's never been a crime before. He must be wondering what all the fuss is about.

 

[valis]

Yes, it is. Where censoring political speech becomes so acceptable.

Censorship? He is free to buy his own network and say anything he wants on it. Free speech does not mean others have to provide the soapbox for you.

BTW: I will bet it was made clear to him ahead of time that he was expected to stick to the script.

 

[Chris O.]

I agree with Valis's statement. The government provides free speech, in that you can't be punished for what you say, up to a point. Private organizations have no requirement to provide a venue for free speech, and have the right to refuse their venue to anyone they wish. That's part of free enterprise.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

Govt. Censorship is another issue, in another thread.

 

[Ed]

The difference is that it's Bush's job to care.

No. It is Bush's job to do his job sans histrionic sound bites.

 

[SlippyToad]

I happened to be watching this live. I had flipped and saw Mike Meyers, so I started watching. Then the other guy pipes up, "George Bush doesn't care about black people.' then they immediately cut to Chris Tucker.

Back in reality, I doubt things would be one iota different if Clinton were still in office, except that it'd be Republican congressmen who were complaining about the horrific response of the president instead of the Democrats.

Well, except when there was a hurricane during Clinton's Presidency, he didn't sit around for 4 days before deciding, magnanimously, to cancel his vacation and see if he could do something about it.

And then, when he did show up, it was to do something more than stage photo ops.

Clinton may have led a slimy personal life, but in his job of leading the nation, he actually Led The Nation.

I had this epiphany during my run through my neighborhood this morning. I imagined it all wrecked and gone, and I imagined the apathy of our government's response, and I realized that I was on my own. We are on our own. It's like it's the f**ing Middle Ages all over again.

 

[Orwell]

Well, except when there was a hurricane during Clinton's Presidency, he didn't sit around for 4 days before deciding, magnanimously, to cancel his vacation and see if he could do something about it.

And then, when he did show up, it was to do something more than stage photo ops.

Clinton may have led a slimy personal life, but in his job of leading the nation, he actually Led The Nation.

I had this epiphany during my run through my neighborhood this morning. I imagined it all wrecked and gone, and I imagined the apathy of our government's response, and I realized that I was on my own. We are on our own. It's like it's the f**ing Middle Ages all over again.

That's what the Bush administration is all about, man: I got mine, screw you, you're on your own.

 

[CapelDodger]

How about region? If this had happened in, say, California, would the response have been faster and better? Or in New England? Perhaps there's an anti-Southern element at work as well.

The South is relatively poor, a legacy of their slave-economy and general benightedness. So there's a linkage. Had the freed slaves got their forty-acres-and-a-mule things might be different now.