Kamala Harris Election Campaign

[acbytesla]

I’ve always assumed that “price controls” rarely achieve their intended objectives.

It’s easy to call for “rent caps”, but I think many landlords are already struggling with rising insurance and other costs and struggling to make their investments worth the hassle. Capping what they can charge for rent can put them in the red, and could lead to a wholesale dumping of rental properties.

Here’s what Copilot comes back with:

Price controls, while often implemented with good intentions, tend to be ineffective for several reasons:

Distortion of Supply and Demand: Price controls interfere with the natural balance of supply and demand. When prices are artificially set below the market equilibrium (price ceiling), it often leads to shortages because the lower price increases demand while discouraging supply. Conversely, setting prices above the market equilibrium (price floor) can lead to surpluses, where supply exceeds demand.

Reduced Incentives for Producers: Price ceilings can reduce the incentive for producers to supply more of a good or service. For example, if rent controls are imposed, landlords may be less inclined to maintain or invest in rental properties, leading to a deterioration in housing quality.

Black Markets and Inefficiencies: When price controls create shortages, black markets often emerge where goods are sold at higher prices. This undermines the purpose of the controls and can lead to inefficiencies and unfair distribution of goods.

Administrative Costs and Enforcement Issues: Implementing and enforcing price controls requires significant administrative effort and resources. Governments need to monitor prices and ensure compliance, which can be costly and challenging.

Temporary Relief, Not a Long-Term Solution: Price controls do not address the underlying causes of high prices, such as supply chain issues or inflation. They provide temporary relief but can exacerbate problems in the long run by discouraging production and investment.

Overall, while price controls might offer short-term benefits in specific situations, they often lead to unintended consequences that can worsen the very issues they aim to solve.

All price controls are not equal as are not all markets. Many of the principles of free market economics don't work or actually apply because we very often don't have free markets. Housing is a perfect example of this. Nowhere do they apply as poorly.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Some of their policies look dangerously leftie compared with the current right wing.

Yes, they do. Soon the only valid comparators will be Mussolini/Hitler/Franco or other fascists.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Probably mentioned before, but -

The President's wife is known as the First Lady ... or FLOTUS
If Harris wins will her husband be the First Gentleman ... or FGOTUS?
It sort of breaks up the neatness of POTUS/FLOTUS/SCOTUS

First Lad Of The US.

PS of and the shouldn't make part of the acronym, they're not nouns or verbs.

 

[GlennB]

First Lad Of The US.

PS of and the shouldn't make part of the acronym, they're not nouns or verbs.

Then the President would be PUS

 

[JoeMorgue]

*My first day at the Secret Service.*

President: "Welcome Agent Morgue. We're going to start you off small, protecting the Presidential Family Cat."
Me: "Ah yes the Cat of the United States."
President: "That's right."
Me: "The COTUS."
President: "Please don't call it that."

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

I thought Trumpettes didn't do facts?

You may want to read up a bit on what you're considering as facts.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Is it as funny as Trump saying to the Mexican President that Mexico didn't have to pay for the wall, but announce that they would?

Not only as funny, but much funnier.

As a matter of fact, what you posted above wasn't funny at all. But seeing Joe Morgue post a long list of half-truths, nonsense, and outright lies as evidence that Biden/Harris are tough on the border is ::chef's kiss::.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Yes if you are just willing to lie and go "Trump never said that" it's a lot easier.

 

[Paul2]

Not only as funny, but much funnier.

As a matter of fact, what you posted above wasn't funny at all. But seeing Joe Morgue post a long list of half-truths, nonsense, and outright lies as evidence that Biden/Harris are tough on the border is ::chef's kiss::.

The list that you could only challenge by quoting a few statements, which would be the least items of any such list anyway?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Don't bother, he made his random snark, he won't actually stay and engage in anything resembling honest discourse.

 

[acbytesla]

Not only as funny, but much funnier.

As a matter of fact, what you posted above wasn't funny at all. But seeing Joe Morgue post a long list of half-truths, nonsense, and outright lies as evidence that Biden/Harris are tough on the border is ::chef's kiss::.

We obviously don't share the same sense of humor.

I find the blatant hypocrisy of desperately searching for potential spin from Harris Walz juxtaposed with the deliberate blind eye to the out and out cons peddled by the world's most prolific liar to be amusing and sad.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I’ve always assumed that “price controls” rarely achieve their intended objectives.

It’s easy to call for “rent caps”, but I think many landlords are already struggling with rising insurance and other costs and struggling to make their investments worth the hassle. Capping what they can charge for rent can put them in the red, and could lead to a wholesale dumping of rental properties.

Here’s what Copilot comes back with:

Price controls, while often implemented with good intentions, tend to be ineffective for several reasons:

1)Distortion of Supply and Demand: Price controls interfere with the natural balance of supply and demand. When prices are artificially set below the market equilibrium (price ceiling), it often leads to shortages because the lower price increases demand while discouraging supply. Conversely, setting prices above the market equilibrium (price floor) can lead to surpluses, where supply exceeds demand.

2) Reduced Incentives for Producers: Price ceilings can reduce the incentive for producers to supply more of a good or service. For example, if rent controls are imposed, landlords may be less inclined to maintain or invest in rental properties, leading to a deterioration in housing quality.

3) Black Markets and Inefficiencies: When price controls create shortages, black markets often emerge where goods are sold at higher prices. This undermines the purpose of the controls and can lead to inefficiencies and unfair distribution of goods.

4) Administrative Costs and Enforcement Issues: Implementing and enforcing price controls requires significant administrative effort and resources. Governments need to monitor prices and ensure compliance, which can be costly and challenging.

5) Temporary Relief, Not a Long-Term Solution: Price controls do not address the underlying causes of high prices, such as supply chain issues or inflation. They provide temporary relief but can exacerbate problems in the long run by discouraging production and investment.

Overall, while price controls might offer short-term benefits in specific situations, they often lead to unintended consequences that can worsen the very issues they aim to solve.

1) There are aleady massive distortions in the market because a few large players control it. They distort the market at both ends by reducing the prices paid to producers and increasing the prices demanded from customers. And because they effectively (if not literally) act as a cartel, it is very hard for newer players to break into the market and challenge the oligopoly.

2) See 1 above, producers are already being squeezed til the pips squeak, but the price reductions are not being passed on.

3) Black markets are more a function of bottlenecks in supply than in pricing. Even the Soviet shrotages were caused, not by prices being too low, but by management practices which caused production to collapse. In fact, the most likely price measure to cause a black market is when prices offered to initial producers are too low, which is the problem right now.

4) This is correct. However, there are going to be significant administration costs no matter what measures are taken as the big problem is the middle gouging at both ends and taking on the major companies in the middle is going to cause serious administrative work.

5) True, price controls are a temporary measure until better controls are put in place, such as breaking up the major suppliers and ensuring that farmers get fair prices.

While price controls aren't a great solution, the current system is close enough to being, to misquote Churchill, the best system apart from all the others that have been tried.

 

[catsmate]

You may want to read up a bit on what you're considering as facts.

I await your refutation of the points made.

 

[acbytesla]

1) There are aleady massive distortions in the market because a few large players control it. They distort the market at both ends by reducing the prices paid to producers and increasing the prices demanded from customers. And because they effectively (if not literally) act as a cartel, it is very hard for newer players to break into the market and challenge the oligopoly.

2) See 1 above, producers are already being squeezed til the pips squeak, but the price reductions are not being passed on.

3) Black markets are more a function of bottlenecks in supply than in pricing. Even the Soviet shrotages were caused, not by prices being too low, but by management practices which caused production to collapse. In fact, the most likely price measure to cause a black market is when prices offered to initial producers are too low, which is the problem right now.

4) This is correct. However, there are going to be significant administration costs no matter what measures are taken as the big problem is the middle gouging at both ends and taking on the major companies in the middle is going to cause serious administrative work.

5) True, price controls are a temporary measure until better controls are put in place, such as breaking up the major suppliers and ensuring that farmers get fair prices.

While price controls aren't a great solution, the current system is close enough to being, to misquote Churchill, the best system apart from all the others that have been tried.

From my perspective, it isn't. And it has been getting progressively worse for the majority of Americans. And it has been since 1980.

We have regulations like zoning that stifle the supply of housing. We subsidize agriculture in horrible ways that has led to a massive overproduction of corn that is used to produce ethanol instead of farms producing crops for food production. We have beef and chicken producers that monopolize and price gouge.

What I see are very few true free markets that adjust to true supply and demand conditions. Instead we have massive corporations that control the markets for the benefit of a very few.

 

[rdwight]

I'm not in love with the Harris, price cap plan as far as I understand it today. There is a place for that to correct short term profiteering in a crisis event. The better strategy is probably to use anti-trust laws to break up the big food and grocery chains. ConAgra and Kroger would be good places to start, Tyson's too. We need to get real competition back into the grocery space. That would also give negotiating power back to farmers.

I've seen Kroger getting complained about recently and it feels like people do not understand how these businesses work. "They have record profits!!" Yes, but their margins are still the same, actually a little lower than normal. Their net profit margin is only 1.43%. And they only account for 11% of the grocery market. We don't have them here in NJ but they would barely make a dent if they tried. I'm spoiled but where I am at I have 5 large chain supermarkets within a 10 minute drive, not counting target/walmart/trade joes/costco/sams club etc, so competition is great here for consumers.

All price controls are not equal as are not all markets. Many of the principles of free market economics don't work or actually apply because we very often don't have free markets. Housing is a perfect example of this. Nowhere do they apply as poorly.

But what about specifically food. I don't think people understand where increases are happening or why. Looking to government to fix a problem they cant explain and hoping it fixes it does not seem like a good plan. I think a lot of food deserts will lose even more options, with local grocery stores shutting down as a result and stores with varied product selection not impacted will replace them. Think Family Dollars as your new food source.

 

[Stacyhs]

I await your refutation of the points made.

There's always the MAGA go-to for fact they don't like: FAKE NEWS!

 

[acbytesla]

But what about specifically food. I don't think people understand where increases are happening or why. Looking to government to fix a problem they cant explain and hoping it fixes it does not seem like a good plan. I think a lot of food deserts will lose even more options, with local grocery stores shutting down as a result and stores with varied product selection not impacted will replace them. Think Family Dollars as your new food source.

They don't apply to food either. The problem is the africulture and grocery industry is monopolized by too few players.

I would much rather solve the problem with greater competition. Unfortunately, far too many industries today have strangleholds on the markets and supply chains.

 

[Armitage72]

Several years ago my elderly mother was reading an article about how the increases in gas prices at the time would lead to higher food prices at the grocery store, and her reaction was "Why the hell would higher gas prices make food cost more?!?"
I had to explain to her how transportation works.

 

[theprestige]

Several years ago my elderly mother was reading an article about how the increases in gas prices at the time would lead to higher food prices at the grocery store, and her reaction was "Why the hell would higher gas prices make food cost more?!?"
I had to explain to her how transportation works.

Hopefully Vice President Harris is smarter than your mom.

 

[jimbob]

They don't apply to food either. The problem is the africulture and grocery industry is monopolized by too few players.

I would much rather solve the problem with greater competition. Unfortunately, far too many industries today have strangleholds on the markets and supply chains.

I have seen the word, "oligopoly" used