just curious/ thoughts on cloning

[Rolfe]

Rolfe, the article states that cloned cats have a mortality rate of 15-45 % 30 days after birth. That seems like an awfully big margin 15-45. But it also says that uncloned cats have the same rate - is this correct?

This is a much more relevant point, and one which I've been pondering on since I read some more detailed articles. No, the mortality seems too high to me. I think you'd have trouble finding a breeder who admitted to such high losses.

I'm also rather concerned about the welfare of the surrogate mothers. I was assuming that US animal welfare and experimentation laws would take care of that, but on more sober reflection, I'm maybe not so sure.

However, my main question relates to duplicates. How many embryos do they start off? More than one at a time, I'll bet. Like IVF - they implant several embryos in the hope that at least one will "take". And look at the rate of multiple births that come out of that method.

If you end up with precisely one successful live kitten, well, OK maybe. But what if you actually get two? Or three? And I can't see that's impossible, in fact I think it's quite likely. Do you quietly rehome them to your mates, or slip them to the local rescue cattery or what?

I was just thinking, if I really had the tissue stored (which I haven't), and Rolfe hadn't been FIV-positive (which he was, and which I suspect would be a total no-no to cloning), and I had the money, what would I want to know? For a start, I'd want to know that the surrogate mothers lived a life of feline luxury, and that if more than one Rolfie-clone resulted, I'd get the lot at no extra charge.

Yes, the one-to-one relationship I had with that cat was very special, but I'd far rather have several of him than know (or fear) that my pampered pet's clone-brother was in an orphanage somewhere. Or even put down as surplus to requirements.

I wonder if these questions have been asked, and if so, were the answers satisfactory? Criticising the "waste" of £27,000 is a complete side-track to the real issues.

Rolfe.

 

[John Bentley]

Rolfe,
I didn't read the article, so I am replying in complete ignorance. That said, the 15 - 45% mortality rate is probably an estimate of the mortality rate of all cats born, not just those resulting from breeders. I've heard this figure before, and I suspect it is accurate for feral cats in my neck of the woods.

edited to include:

The high figure is from predation and parasites in the feral cat population, not from genetic defects.

edited again:

And I agree with you that she has the right to spend her money however she sees fit. My question to the critics would be: "Have you taken a vow of poverty?"

As far as cloning goes, and the similarities in personality, just look at the research done on twins separated at birth for the answer.

 

[Barbrae]

I'm also rather concerned about the welfare of the surrogate mothers. I was assuming that US animal welfare and experimentation laws would take care of that, but on more sober reflection, I'm maybe not so sure.

Rolfe.

I also would be interested to know just what effect the health, environment, lifestyle of the surrogate has on the resulting newborn.

 

[Suezoled]

Remember how people used the "Give it to the poor "argument about project Apollo?

The poor ye will have with you alway, even unto the ends of the Earth, but 363 feet of exploding firework ripping into space like a cat with it's tail on fire; that's something you don't get to see everyday.

It's a poor argument, though the moral force varies depending on who makes it , to my mind.

I do feel anyone who spends this kind of money on a cat needs his / her head examined.

A dog I could understand.

It appears the fissure between the "haves" and the "have-nots" has been noticed again.
Bottom line about that is that it's the buyer's d@mn money, and she can spend it any way she wants. No one 's gonna tell her how to spend it; I doubt anyone would blink an eye if she had paid to have her cat mummified and then built into a huge egyptian tomb of worship.
Criticize her, tell her she wasted her money, it's no chicken's business, no matter how many cluck about her not giving it to buy a cat she could adopt for far less money. (It's almost like saying "buy the bargain cat because the more expensive one isn't worth the money." Putting a price on sentimental things is pretty tricky.)

I also would be interested to know just what effect the health, environment, lifestyle of the surrogate has on the resulting newborn.

I would like to know the baseline standards one would use in order to perform a comparative study between surrogates and non-surrogate situations, including health, environment, etc.

 

[Rolfe]

I also would be interested to know just what effect the health, environment, lifestyle of the surrogate has on the resulting newborn.

Given the money involved, I'd be confident that the health, environment and welfare of the surrogate were exemplary during pregnancy and lactation. Nobody is going to want a badly socialised, unhealthy kitten at £27,000 a pop. I'd be interested to know what precautions they take regarding FIP and similar infections too - I think the breeding colony must be essentially maintained as SPF.

However, is welfare ensured before conception and after weaning? That's where I'd like to get a bit probing.

And I also want to know about the duplicates matter.

However, given satisfactory answers to all this stuff, it's the lady's own money. Maybe people who have taken that vow of poverty are in a position to criticise, but nobody else.

How much is everybody who is getting all holy about that going to donate to the tsunami disaster fund, and how much spending money will they have left at the end of it?

Rolfe.

 

[Soapy Sam]

How common is mammal cloning anyway? The human cloners seem to have gone quiet of late. For a while there it seemed like everybody with a test tube and a P.R. agency was about to produce one next month.

 

[NoZed Avenger]

Maybe people who have taken that vow of poverty are in a position to criticise, but nobody else.

Et Tu quoque, Brutus?



N/A

 

[Mojo]

I have no particular objection to someone spending their money on this if they want to, although I suspect they're wasting their money if they are expecting a perfect replica. Environment is bound to have an effect, epecially on personality.

But are there any health issues for the cat? I remember it being reported (and a quick Google search confirms this) that Dolly the sheep showed signs of premature ageing. Has this been confirmed as a side effect of the cloning?

 

[Lithrael]

And the 50K would proably have ended up sitting in a bank account. much better that it be spent and keep the economy going.

Got to agree with this actually. I'd have to applaud this nut for giving that kind of cash to a lab full of people doing interesting stuff, given what sorts of absolute crap I see the rich dropping money on. This money isn't wasted, it's going somewhere, and rewarding the cloners for their hard work.

 

[Suezoled]

How common is mammal cloning anyway? The human cloners seem to have gone quiet of late. For a while there it seemed like everybody with a test tube and a P.R. agency was about to produce one next month.

http://skepdic.com/raelian.html

Eh, the raelians have moved on; Intelligent Design is all the rage now, and it's not a god that made life on earth, it was aliens.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

But are there any health issues for the cat? I remember it being reported (and a quick Google search confirms this) that Dolly the sheep showed signs of premature ageing. Has this been confirmed as a side effect of the cloning?

Good question. Any answers? It makes sense, but is it true, and can it be remedied?

 

[BillyJoe]

On a related topic, we are having a record $30 million dollar lottery soon and there is already an expectation that the winner will donate a portion to the tsunami fund.

It's easy to spend someone else's money!

BJ