Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[Andy_Ross]

Murray is another publicity seeker I wouldn't trust him to tell me how to make a cup of tea.

 

[uke2se]

Who the heck is Craig Murray anyway? Some kind of legal scholar?

 

[eirik]

I have a question.

If Assange is so afraid to go to Sweden because of extradition, how did he find himself in Sweden in the first place, alledgedly raping these girls?

Why was he suddenly so concerned about extradition only *after* he was accused of rape?

 

[uke2se]

I have a question.

If Assange is so afraid to go to Sweden because of extradition, how did he find himself in Sweden in the first place, alledgedly raping these girls?

Why was he suddenly so concerned about extradition only *after* he was accused of rape?

Shhh... we mustn't question the logic of these people. It makes them mad.

 

[PhantomWolf]

I have a question.

If Assange is so afraid to go to Sweden because of extradition, how did he find himself in Sweden in the first place, alledgedly raping these girls?

Why was he suddenly so concerned about extradition only *after* he was accused of rape?

Funnily enough it was because he was worried about being extradited by the UK to the US......

 

[Korren]

Why was he suddenly so concerned about extradition only *after* he was accused of rape?

Actually, if you look at the timeline, it doesn't look like he was all that concerned about extradition or the state of the Swedish legal system until Sweden denied him residency. Rather peculiar that.

 

[JihadJane]

Who the heck is Craig Murray anyway? Some kind of legal scholar?

He's an ex-diplomat and persecuted whistleblower with a broad knowledge of diplomatic law and convention.

I have a question.

If Assange is so afraid to go to Sweden because of extradition, how did he find himself in Sweden in the first place, alledgedly raping these girls?

Women.

He was there for a conference, IIRC.

Why was he suddenly so concerned about extradition only *after* he was accused of rape?

Whose definition of rape are you using here? Are you happy with it?

Assange has said the accusations are without basis. This may be true.

Sweden wouldn't be able to extradite him without accusing him of a crime.

Whistleblowers in the West are routinely punished for their political"crimes" by setting them up with other, non-political crimes.

 

[trustbutverify]

Funnily enough it was because he was worried about being extradited by the UK to the US......

Amazing.

 

[Korren]

He was there for a conference, IIRC.

You recall incorrectly -- or at least, incompletely. He was there to apply for residency in Sweden, amusingly enough because of Sweden's strong legal protection for journalists and freedom of speech. It was only until Sweden had denied him residency that he suddenly found their legal system untrustworthy.

 

[PhantomWolf]

You recall incorrectly -- or at least, incompletely. He was there to apply for residency in Sweden, amusingly enough because of Sweden's strong legal protection for journalists and freedom of speech. It was only until Sweden had denied him residency that he suddenly found their legal system untrustworthy.

This isn't entirely correct either. Part of the reason he set up the conference in Sweden and applied for residency is that he was worried that after the Wikileaks releases the US would come after him and it'd be easier to get to him in the UK.

 

[uke2se]

He's an ex-diplomat and persecuted whistleblower with a broad knowledge of diplomatic law and convention.

Not a legal scholar then. Got it.

Women.

He was there for a conference, IIRC.

Not unless "attending a conference" implies applying for residence.

Whose definition of rape are you using here? Are you happy with it?

The legal definition, and yes, I am happy with it.

Assange has said the accusations are without basis. This may be true.

We'll never know until the creep gives himself up to face justice.

Sweden wouldn't be able to extradite him without accusing him of a crime.

Well, d'uh. Nor would they want to.

Whistleblowers in the West are routinely punished for their political"crimes" by setting them up with other, non-political crimes.

Please give 5 examples with evidence that shows they more than likely were punished for political crimes while set up for non-political crimes. 5 shouldn't be a problem if this is done routinely.

 

[eirik]

He was there for a conference, IIRC.

So he's not afraid to go to Sweden if there is a conference..?

Whose definition of rape are you using here? Are you happy with it?

The legal, and yes.

Assange has said the accusations are without basis. This may be true.

And so all rapists would say. We will not know until he answers the police in a questioning, and later in a court of law if he is indicted. He is escaping jthe justice system, and subsequently he's looking like an escaping rapist.

Sweden wouldn't be able to extradite him without accusing him of a crime.

Are we just making **** up now?

Whistleblowers in the West are routinely punished for their political"crimes" by setting them up with other, non-political crimes.

Aah, the conspiracy theory. Yawn.

 

[Korren]

Well, d'uh. Nor would they want to.

I think you misread JihadJane here. She's saying that in order for Sweden to honour an extradition request for Assange from the USA, they had to first accuse him for an unrelated crime in Sweden. That, of course is utterly wrong, and one might wonder what crime in the UK she thinks the UK accused Assange of before they processed the Swedish extradition request.

 

[JihadJane]

So he's not afraid to go to Sweden if there is a conference..?

Why should he be?

The legal, and yes.

Which legal definition are you happy with?

And so all rapists would say.

It may be true. Have you considered that possibility?

We will not know until he answers the police in a questioning,

He has offered himself for questioning on several occasions.

...and later in a court of law if he is indicted. He is escaping jthe justice system, and subsequently he's looking like an escaping rapist.

He looks to me and many others like an escaping whistleblower.

Are we just making **** up now?

No, that is the experience of several other whistlblowers

Aah, the conspiracy theory. Yawn.

Aah, the thought-stooping "conspiracy theory" phrase. Sad.

I think you misread JihadJane here. She's saying that in order for Sweden to honour an extradition request for Assange from the USA, they had to first accuse him for an unrelated crime in Sweden. That, of course is utterly wrong, and one might wonder what crime in the UK she thinks the UK accused Assange of before they processed the Swedish extradition request.

No, I'm not saying that.

 

[uke2se]

I think you misread JihadJane here. She's saying that in order for Sweden to honour an extradition request for Assange from the USA, they had to first accuse him for an unrelated crime in Sweden. That, of course is utterly wrong, and one might wonder what crime in the UK she thinks the UK accused Assange of before they processed the Swedish extradition request.

I'm more or less intentionally misreading her. I knew what she was getting at, but it was so dumb that I gave her the benefit of doubt, even though I knew it was futile.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Whose definition of rape are you using here? Are you happy with it?

Who's woulkd you like to use? The British Supreme Court has ruled that the alleged actions of Assange would be considered rape in the UK. In fact I'd be surprised if the alledged actions would be treated otherwise in any western country.

Assange has said the accusations are without basis. This may be true.

Rudy Guede claims that the accusations against him are without basis too.

Sweden wouldn't be able to extradite him without accusing him of a crime.

You do realise that he was accused before he run? If he hadn't run to the UK Sweden wouldn't have to had to extradite him, in fact the whole sage would likely be over by now.

Whistleblowers in the West are routinely punished for their political"crimes" by setting them up with other, non-political crimes.

Rapists are routinuely punished for their crimes too.

 

[uke2se]

Why should he be?

We don't know. Why should he?

Which legal definition are you happy with?

Pesonally, I'm quite happy with the definition that says that if you penetrate someone without a condom when they wanted you to use one, it counts as rape. Also, if you penetrate someone who's sound asleep, it counts as rape.

It may be true. Have you considered that possibility?

We'll never know until Assange gives himself up.

He has offered himself for questioning on several occasions.

It's not quite "offering himself up" when he knows Swedish authorities can't comply with his conditions legally. Furthermore, the accused should not be making demands.

He looks to me like an escaping whistleblower

Which whistle did he blow? Did he actually do anything at all?

No, that is the experience of several other whistlblowers

Which ones?

Aah, the thought-stooping "conspiracy theory" phrase. Sad.

Well, you have to admit that you're pretty deep into conspiracy theory territory right now.

 

[Here_to_learn]

even after being faced with the actual texts of legislation relating to this matter

Ah, are you talking about extraditing from Sweden to the US again? If so, I'm still waiting for an answer to this from a coupe of pages back:

But still Sweden has to ask the UK for permission, so the two options would be:

Extradite from Sweden: Needs permission from Sweden & UK.
Extradite from UK: Needs permission only from UK.

Regardless of what the Sweden/US treaty says, the EAW law is there, and holds up to 45 days after JA is released from whatever happens to him in Sweden.

So, I've asked you before and you haven't answered, here is the question again - how would the US/Sweden treaty in your opinion overrule the EAW?

 

[JihadJane]

We don't know. Why should he?

He wasn't

Pesonally, I'm quite happy with the definition that says that if you penetrate someone without a condom when they wanted you to use one, it counts as rape. Also, if you penetrate someone who's sound asleep, it counts as rape.

Where does this definition come from and how is it relevant to the allegations against Assange?

We'll never know until Assange gives himself up.

Seems like like a number of people posting here know already...

It's not quite "offering himself up" when he knows Swedish authorities can't comply with his conditions legally.

Not true. They can question Assange anywhere in the world if they want to.

Furthermore, the accused should not be making demands.

Why not? He's been granted political asylum. Get used to it!

Which whistle did he blow? Did he actually do anything at all?

Strange question, perhaps rooted in willful ignorance! See other thread on this topic for plenty of examples.

Which ones?

I don't know the complete list. Start with Craig Murray and Janis Karpinski.

Well, you have to admit that you're pretty deep into conspiracy theory territory right now.

It's no more of a conspiracy theory than is alleging that Assange is rapist.

_______________________________________________

'Sex, Lies and Julian Assange (Four Corners)' (ABC documentary)

For key points, start 20 minutes in:

 

[Here_to_learn]

Not true. They can question Assange anywhere in the world if they want to.

But since it's not just about questioning, that's irrelevant. Sweden does wants to conduct criminal proceedings (including questioning), and then JA has to be in Sweden.