Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[BenBurch]

I think if we had anything to indict on we would have done it by now.

He knows this, but also knows that he raped those women.

And also knows what his STD status is.

And does not want to be tested.

 

[Puppycow]

Assange asylum decision coming Thursday, Ecuador says

Even if he is granted asylum, would he be able to physically leave the country? Or would he have to remain at the Ecuadoran embassy in London indefinitely?

 

[theprestige]

One has to wonder what Ecuador thinks it's getting out of the deal. Is there some nation-state out there whose favor Ecuador is looking to gain?

"Sure, we soured relations with the UK and Sweden (and, conspiracy-theoretically, with the US)... but at least we're now much closer to..." ???

Cuba? Venezuela?

And how much closer, really, if this is all Ecuador can bring to the table?

"Sure, Venezuela has oil, and they're friends with Russia, but we gave asylum to that Wikileaks douchebag that one time... surely that has to count for something, right? Right?"

 

[nathan]

Basically he is not even "accused" he is (was?) only wanted for questionning.

No, he's wanted for prosecution. As has been said upthread by Jack of Kent (IIRC), the success of the Swedish case for extradition shows they have sufficient evidence to prosecute him, and had the same evidence been presented to a British prosecutor for an act (allegedly) occurring in Britain, he would be prosecuted here.

 

[nathan]

The UK may be planning to revoke the embassy status of the premises currently occupied for that purpose by Ecuador and Assange:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19259623

I like the quote:

"Ecuador rejects in the most emphatic terms the explicit threat of the British official communication."

Um, no, I don't think you can reject the threat -- it's already been made. You could deplore or resist it, but rejecting it sounds like you're going 'la la la I can't hear you'

. Would this be illegal under international law, given that an embassy is considered sovereign territory?

No. Embassies are not sovereign territory. They are extended certain diplomatic courtesies.

He said such a threat was "improper of a democratic, civilised and rule-abiding country".

... says the man considering harbouring a fugitive of at least one non-political crime.

 

[Fredrik]

"Ecuador's president Rafael Correa has agreed to give Julian Assange asylum, officials within Ecuador's government have said." -- The Guardian

This is weird. The Swedish news this morning said that Ecuador will announce around 2 PM today (4.5 hours from now) if he will get his asylum.

 

[Noztradamus]

Great news!

So Assange is going to be http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0033874/

Why? I can understand Polanski and Waston running, because you know, they're free. But Assange is aiming for life detention in Equador's London embassy.

Is Swedish justice that harsh?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

... says the man considering harbouring a fugitive of at least one non-political crime.

Here's the thing, though: the UK claims to want to extradite Assange to Sweden so that he can be prosecuted for rape. Ecuador is likely offering Assange asylum because they believe the extradition has an ulterior motive.

If that belief is true, then this threat is evidence for it. If it's false, then this threat is wildly disproportionate to the crime of which he's being accused.

 

[Korren]

If it's false, then this threat is wildly disproportionate to the crime of which he's being accused.

Or perhaps this whole "threat" thing has been oversold and exaggerated?

 

[JihadJane]

Or perhaps this whole "threat" thing has been oversold and exaggerated?

The threat:

"You need to be aware that there is a legal base in the UK, the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987, that would allow us to take actions in order to arrest Mr Assange in the current premises of the embassy."

It added: "We need to reiterate that we consider the continued use of the diplomatic premises in this way incompatible with the Vienna convention and unsustainable and we have made clear the serious implications that this has for our diplomatic relations."

Eh, no. This case has nothing to do with the USA's justice system. You may be conflating it with the Bradford Manning case.

It has everything to do with the USA's criminal justice system. It's why Assange is seeking asylum, partly because he (along with the rest of us) has seen how Manning (and many others) has been treated by it. The USA has become a lawless, murderous, rogue state, contemptuous of international law and human rights.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Or perhaps this whole "threat" thing has been oversold and exaggerated?

That's also a possibility, sure.

 

[JihadJane]

'Livestream from in front of embassy'

 

[DrDave]

Step 1: Cut power and water to the embassy
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit

 

[JihadJane]

Cut power and water to the embassy
???
Profit

???

What does this haiku mean?

 

[Korren]

The threat:

"You need to be aware that there is a legal base in the UK, the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987, that would allow us to take actions in order to arrest Mr Assange in the current premises of the embassy."

Which is subtly different from "send him out or we'll storm the embassy." Pointing out that you're negotiating from a position of strength is not necessarily a threat to use that strength.

Now, one might argue that it's diplomatically uncouth or rude or that it's disproportional to make this point over allegations of "mere rape," but that's overlooking that these are in response to Ecuador's actions in this case -- harbouring and considering granting political asylum to someone wanted for a common crime and already fairly treated by the UK courts -- which is a far greater diplomatic rudeness. At this level, it's no longer about Assange or the accusations against him or his extradition -- it's about Ecuador's behaviour and their diplomatic relationship to the UK.

 

[Fredrik]

Cut power and water to the embassy
???
Profit

A proper "gnomes" reference should contain the words "Step 1" and "Step 3".

Respect my authoritah.

???

What does this haiku mean?

It was a reference to the South Park episode "Gnomes". That episode featured the "underpants gnomes", who went into people's houses at night and stole their underpants. This was their plan:

Step 1: Collect underpants.
Step 3: Profit.

Edit: Well, this is embarrassing. Apparently the word was "phase", not "step".

 

[DrDave]

A proper "gnomes" reference should contain the words "Step 1" and "Step 3".

Respect my authoritah.

It does - and you'd best not question my integritah

 

[DrDave]

???

What does this haiku mean?

It means that we shouldn't be letting some pretend country mug us off. Give them a chance to come out quietly before sending the army in

 

[Korren]

It has everything to do with the USA's criminal justice system. It's why Assange is seeking asylum, partly because he (along with the rest of us) has seen how Manning (and many others) has been treated by it. The USA has become a lawless, murderous, rogue state, contemptuous of international law and human rights.

Assange is not being extradited to the USA. Assange is not being prosecuted in US courts, he has not been accused of anything in US courts, he is not wanted by US legal authorities.

This case has nothing to do with the USA, except, possibly, in the minds of people who are either paranoid or whose understanding of the case is already bound to an established narrative.

 

[JihadJane]

Which is subtly different from "send him out or we'll storm the embassy." Pointing out that you're negotiating from a position of strength is not necessarily a threat to use that strength.

It's still a threat, just as "Look what a big fist I've got!" is a threat.

Now, one might argue that it's diplomatically uncouth or rude or that it's disproportional to make this point over allegations of "mere rape," but that's overlooking that these are in response to Ecuador's actions in this case -- harbouring and considering granting political asylum to someone wanted for a common crime and already fairly treated by the UK courts -- which is a far greater diplomatic rudeness. At this level, it's no longer about Assange or the accusations against him or his extradition -- it's about Ecuador's behaviour and their diplomatic relationship to the UK.

He's not wanted for a common crime. He's wanted for questioning about allegations that were made after the case against him had been declared by Swedish authorities to be without merit, allowing to freely leave Sweden.

Protecting someone from the likelihood of torture and murder (US justice system) is a very strong diplomatic position.