JREFer Arrogance vs. Truther Martyr Complex

Profanz said:
It's not really arrogance with the debunkers. Arrogance implies some kind of knowledge about something. It's cowardly belligerence at best.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you a question. I don't know your field of expertise. But I'll inflict mathematics upon you.

You know math. You've studied it, acquired ability in it, use it or teach it.

You get into a discussion with a non-math adept person, who asserts that 2+2=22. And he has his unshakable (& obvious) self-generated technique that he claims is right.

Is your assertion that 2+2=4 "arrogant"?

Is your assertion that 2+2 can not possibly be 22 "arrogant"?

If you point out to him that every math expert & every math textbook in the world says "4", is that arrogant?

If you listen to his argument, and point out where he is going off track, but he rejects everything you say as part of giant New Math Order conspiracy, and you tell him that he is being silly & paranoid, is that arrogant?

Where, in your opinion, is the line between "self-assured because you know what you what you are talking about" and "arrogant"?

Or do you concede that 2+2 might be 22?

Tom
 
Last edited:
Profanz said:
Was GWB a Martyr when God told him to go to war? He was on a mission from God. Just like the Blues Brothers. Is it a coke thing?
Click to expand...

Does GWB play any role in what you believe about 9/11?

Do you think that he (or anyone in his admin) played an active role? A passive role? A large role?

If you believe that, why do you think that those who would have the most to gain by gutting the Repub party (the Democrats), who are now in power, have not instigated their own effort to hunt down & expose the hated Bush/Cheney/Rummy axis of evil?

I'm serious. I'd like to know what you think. Please don't give a flippant reply.

Tom
 
tfk said:
Does GWB play any role in what you believe about 9/11?

Do you think that he (or anyone in his admin) played an active role? A passive role? A large role?

If you believe that, why do you think that those who would have the most to gain by gutting the Repub party (the Democrats), who are now in power, have not instigated their own effort to hunt down & expose the hated Bush/Cheney/Rummy axis of evil?

I'm serious. I'd like to know what you think. Please don't give a flippant reply.

Tom
Click to expand...

I predict a response along the lines of: "Republicans and Democrats are all part of the NWO, so they both have as much to lose by exposure. Politics is just a dog and pony show to fool the sheeple..."
 
I think the Truther contributions to this thread illustrate your point beautifully.

There is no point discussing with them. None at all. They are unwilling to hold a useful conversation.

For some it is simply because they don't have anything interesting to talk about. But others compound this with the adversarial reactions of a five year old amped up on Pro Wrestling shows.

It was different once upon a time, when there were some scientific questions still open for discussion. In that situation it is sometimes productive to talk to the ... more imaginative of the interested parties. But those days are over. There are no deep mysteries left. There's a little bit of uncertainty remaining, but it's all been carefully bounded.

Some of the folks at Gregory's forum are still looking at things that are potentially interesting in a purely theoretical sense. There is nothing that will alter our understanding of September 11th, but some topics of visualization for instance may still interest some as a purely intellectual exercise.

Apart from them, however, I am unaware of even a single intelligent comment from the entire Truth Movement in the last year. Not one. Not from any of them.

This is why professionals do not debate or even give the time of day to Holocaust deniers, to Evolution deniers, to anti-vaccine lunatics, and so on. It's a losing proposition. Nobody cares except the crazies themselves, and their only motivation is to create the illusion of contraversy by creating a heated argument. It's cargo-cult thinking -- if there was contraversy, there would be an argument, yes, but just because there's an argument doesn't mean there is contraversy. Sometimes, as it is here, the crazies are simply uneducated, bellicose, stubborn, typically juvenile and utterly uninterested in learning anything or progressing to a solution.

I say that with full confidence because I've worked with various more intelligent ex-Truthers over the years, people who actually did want to learn, and they contributed meaningfully to my own understanding and worked towards answers. But now that we have those answers, it's over. The Truthers were wrong. Some people don't want to accept that, but I don't care, and neither should you.

If there were still intelligent comments coming from the Truthers, this would be different, but there aren't any. Find me one if you disagree.
 
tfk said:
...
The fact that, at some point I inevitably say, "Nope, I won't allow the possibility that 2+2=59.38, that is simply wrong" results in "you're an arrogant, NIST apologizing, shill, asswipe". ...
Tom
Click to expand...
I don't find anything about 911 very complex, and when I am confronted with 911 was an inside job by way of no planes, beam weapons and even some real-cd-deal double talking paper junk I find it as simple as them failing to get 2+2=4 (based on the appropriate number system). And I have no problem labeling their ideas on 911 stupid on face value and even more so when you find their only evidence is their original statement of delusional junk.

911 truth is worse than religion they are more like NAZIs spewing lies and acting like morons.
 
Here is an exercise I want each of you to do. I did it today, and it made me laugh...a good, relieving laugh.

1. Step away from the computer.
2. Close your eyes.
3. Now think, nearly a decade after the event, what have these "truthers" done? Seriously. It is so easy to get caught up in taunting this one, or reading a post by that one. So easy to focus on the minutia (see Jone paper thread ressurected) that you can lose sight of the fact that THESE IDIOTS HAVE DONE NOTHING, HAVE PROVEN NOTHING, HAVE GONE NOWHERE.

Think about how long poor old Craig and Waldo have been plugging away at it. Think about the sheer HOURS AND HOURS Captain Bob has put into it. Think about the hours of experimentation and paper writing Jones has done. Think about these "talks" that Gage gives....

Now with all that...

TURN OFF the computer, go outside, and try to find something related to the 9/11 truth movement...seriously.

TAM:)
 
Nice OP.

I think truthers (seem to) have a martyr complex because of the quality of their "evidence" for an inside job. It's all tenuous and spurious, based on faulty logic and downright incorrect data.

If you criticise one of their "points of evidence" and point out the spuriousness of this evidence, if they admitted you were correct then their whole house of Truthy cards would fall down because they would have to admit all their claims are similarly faulty.

That's why you rarely see truthers admit to being wrong on a point. And when they do, you nearly always see them make that same claim again later as if nothing had ever happened.


T.A.M. said:
Here is an exercise I want each of you to do. I did it today, and it made me laugh...a good, relieving laugh.

1. Step away from the computer.
2. Close your eyes.
3. Now think, nearly a decade after the event, what have these "truthers" done? Seriously. It is so easy to get caught up in taunting this one, or reading a post by that one. So easy to focus on the minutia (see Jone paper thread ressurected) that you can lose sight of the fact that THESE IDIOTS HAVE DONE NOTHING, HAVE PROVEN NOTHING, HAVE GONE NOWHERE.

Think about how long poor old Craig and Waldo have been plugging away at it. Think about the sheer HOURS AND HOURS Captain Bob has put into it. Think about the hours of experimentation and paper writing Jones has done. Think about these "talks" that Gage gives....

Now with all that...

TURN OFF the computer, go outside, and try to find something related to the 9/11 truth movement...seriously.

TAM:)
Click to expand...

:) Good advice. We just had a week's holiday away, and 9/11 Truth was literally non-existent. I don't think it counts that I thought of 9/11 CTs once, and that was only during a short conversation with Mr. Nay discussing the lead singer of Muse and his nutty beliefs.

(I didn't know the guy actually cancelled one of their shows because he thought the world was ending because a meteor was going to hit Earth.)

We looked in bookshops and DVD shops, and no, there was no sign of 9/11 Truth. No 9/11 Truthy movies in the cinema or on TV. There was no sign of any "Investigate 9/11" t-shirts, posters or stickers. Nothing.
 
T.A.M. said:
Here is an exercise I want each of you to do. I did it today, and it made me laugh...a good, relieving laugh.

1. Step away from the computer.
2. Close your eyes.
3. Now think, nearly a decade after the event, what have these "truthers" done? Seriously. It is so easy to get caught up in taunting this one, or reading a post by that one. So easy to focus on the minutia (see Jone paper thread ressurected) that you can lose sight of the fact that THESE IDIOTS HAVE DONE NOTHING, HAVE PROVEN NOTHING, HAVE GONE NOWHERE.

Think about how long poor old Craig and Waldo have been plugging away at it. Think about the sheer HOURS AND HOURS Captain Bob has put into it. Think about the hours of experimentation and paper writing Jones has done. Think about these "talks" that Gage gives....

Now with all that...

TURN OFF the computer, go outside, and try to find something related to the 9/11 truth movement...seriously.

TAM:)
Click to expand...

Bingo. As much as those at the forum you were banned at like to toot their own horns discussing how they have created oh so many models of the towers, they haven't done anything substantial. No engineers in the streets calling for the heads of NIST. No retractions. Nothing.

They sure seem to be enjoying the fact that they banned you, tfk. Enjoy the little things, I suppose.
 
Last edited:
Hokulele said:
Does this mean I can put away the Dremel tool now?


*Hides the pumpkin carving extension behind back and tries to look innocent*
Click to expand...


Most determined suicide in history...?

In 1971 William G. Hall, of Shrewsbury, England, killed himself by drilling eight holes in his head with an electric power drill.
Click to expand...
Or ...?


Hokulele,
Could you please advise soonest of your whereabouts between 1/1/71 & 12/31/71.

Tom
 
Hey guys,

Don't forget the video mentioned in the OP.

It really is worth a watch.

Tom
 
I loved that thread you linked to tfk.
I remember femr2 from youtube with his laughable wtc model.
Nice to see the mauling he just got from a real engineer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom