Jeff Corey
New York Skeptic
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2001
- Messages
- 13,714
This wipe is getting almost as tedious as II.
Ignatius
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Messages
- 373
Clancie,
Would you mind looking up and posting some examples of what I am talking about? You may want to even start a new thread and list a bunch in that thread, then every time he does it you can add to that thread. That may act as a deterrent to him in the future (I would do it, but I really dread the idea of wading through a lot of threads and copying and pasting. I'm quite lazy and you have a bit more of a stake in this than me).
You disappoint me, Claus. I've characterized it several different ways and you choose to jump on my hyperbole of "every". This is to your advantage since it distracts from my point.
I fully expected that when this conversation started, you would defend your actions by explaining why you thought it was ok or maybe even by saying that she does it too. Instead, you pretend that it doesn't happen and that you have no personal grievance against Clancie. This is simply dishonest. I'm beginning to suspect that you are so emotionally involved in the subject that it clouds your thinking. I have to admit that I have lost some respect for you.
I have what may be a solution. Clancie could start a thread to collect posts where you come in and try and pick a fight with her. If I see you harassing her on topics not involving the paranormal, I will jump in and harass you. That way, if you are not doing this (as you claim) there will be no harm done because there will be no reason to ever add to that thread or for me to step in. If you are doing it (as I claim) then maybe it will become more obvious to you. Fair?
Would you mind looking up and posting some examples of what I am talking about? You may want to even start a new thread and list a bunch in that thread, then every time he does it you can add to that thread. That may act as a deterrent to him in the future (I would do it, but I really dread the idea of wading through a lot of threads and copying and pasting. I'm quite lazy and you have a bit more of a stake in this than me).
CFLarsen said:
You disappoint me, Claus. I've characterized it several different ways and you choose to jump on my hyperbole of "every". This is to your advantage since it distracts from my point.
I fully expected that when this conversation started, you would defend your actions by explaining why you thought it was ok or maybe even by saying that she does it too. Instead, you pretend that it doesn't happen and that you have no personal grievance against Clancie. This is simply dishonest. I'm beginning to suspect that you are so emotionally involved in the subject that it clouds your thinking. I have to admit that I have lost some respect for you.
I have what may be a solution. Clancie could start a thread to collect posts where you come in and try and pick a fight with her. If I see you harassing her on topics not involving the paranormal, I will jump in and harass you. That way, if you are not doing this (as you claim) there will be no harm done because there will be no reason to ever add to that thread or for me to step in. If you are doing it (as I claim) then maybe it will become more obvious to you. Fair?
Ignatius
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Messages
- 373
Cleopatra said:
Cleopatra,
I have already stated that I could understand it a little more when the subject is related to the paranormal (I know they have a history of going back and forth on that subject). Do you think it would be appropriate (in the very slanted scenerio that you described) to then follow me into the community forum and other unrelated subjects to try and intimidate me and make sure that
I felt unwelcome?
But "intellectual terrorism"? For some reason that phrase made me chuckle. I think you may be overstating YOUR case a bit.
Ignatius,
I would much rather prefer that you provide evidence of your own claims, instead of letting Clancie do it for you.
It would also be nice if you could refrain from calling me "dishonest", just because you have not been able to back up your claims. It's not my fault, you know.
Opening a new thread to collect new posts does not say anything about what has happened. Which was what your claim was about. It also serves no purpose to start harrassing each other.
I take it you have given up trying to provide evidence of your claims. Is this correct?
Why is Cleopatras scenario "slanted"? She merely turns the tables.
I would much rather prefer that you provide evidence of your own claims, instead of letting Clancie do it for you.
It would also be nice if you could refrain from calling me "dishonest", just because you have not been able to back up your claims. It's not my fault, you know.
Opening a new thread to collect new posts does not say anything about what has happened. Which was what your claim was about. It also serves no purpose to start harrassing each other.
I take it you have given up trying to provide evidence of your claims. Is this correct?
Why is Cleopatras scenario "slanted"? She merely turns the tables.
Ignatius said:
No it wouldn't be appropriate but then why should I expect my mistakes to be always accepted and forgiven and your human reaction to be condemned by the whole community?
In my hypothetical scenario who sounds hyperbolic but yet it's not-- the community constantly asks you not to be a super human skeptic and remember that you are an ordinary person and yet when you behave like an ordinary person, when you make a mistake because you are "up to here" you are asked to apologize about it.
Quite harsh, don't you think?
But "intellectual terrorism"? For some reason that phrase made me chuckle. I think you may be overstating YOUR case a bit.
Hmmm. Believe me that I though a lot before using this phrase but I think that it's the only appropriate. In my hypothetical scenario the behaviors that "The Chronicles of Middle East" create consitute intellectual terrorism. Not to mention the unspeakable personal attacks and accusations.
One more thing. Maybe I am wrong about that but this is an opinion of an outsider. USA is a strange country, people have many freedoms but they have a President who communicates with God to take his decisions.
I am not an atheist and sometimes I am disturbed by some reactions here but then when my head cools ( as we say here) I realize that it's hard to be an atheist and a free thinker in the States.
People feel nice when they meet people who think alike, they relax and I don't know about you but when I meet with my friends that we think alike and we have the same basic beliefs we say a couple of stupids things. We all need a community to help us "heal" the hits our pride and dignity suffers during the day.
When I realize that somebody who posts something silly about theists and religions might have been humiliated the very morning in his office because of a plant he grows--for example- then I chill-out.After all the stupidity is virtual but the incident he experienced in his every day life very real.
hammegk.
You have a point but allow me to ask you to consider the reasons that lead to the creation of "Hal's Pals".
Ignatius
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Messages
- 373
Why would it possibly matter to you who does the legwork? Slogging through all kinds of posts that I am less familiar with than Clancie is a chore that I don't want to bother with, especially if someone that is closer to the subject at hand will do it. If she will not, it is fair to ask me to.CFLarsen said:
My "claim" has not been refuted. You're very nitpicky at selecting fairly insignificant portions of my posts so that you can ignore the larger issue (and there have been several specific questions that you have also ignored). That you have some personal grudge against Clancie and follow her around to pick fights with her. I apologize for calling you dishonest though.
Now what possible harm could it do if you are not doing precisely what I have said you were doing? I wont be harassing you if you are not harassing her. Why wouldn't you agree to that if you had not intention of doing it to her in the future?
Ignatius
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2001
- Messages
- 373
Cleopatra,
Actually, I do hold skeptics to a higher standard. Maybe you think this is unfair, but I am consistant about it. I am an atheist and it irks me much more to see other atheists being abusive or bullying to Christians. I'm a liberal and I expect more out of liberals than I do conservatives.
There is also the minority viewpoint to consider. There are many, many more skeptics on this board than believers so that makes it much more prone to the "tyranny of the majority". I have less of a problem with people being abusive to II, because II is so often abuse to them (I have to admit that it still bothers me a little, though). Clancie, at least in the forums that I follow, has handled herself in a pretty good manner. I don't like to see her or anyone else for that matter bullied.
"Intellectual terrorism" still cracks me up, though!
Actually, I do hold skeptics to a higher standard. Maybe you think this is unfair, but I am consistant about it. I am an atheist and it irks me much more to see other atheists being abusive or bullying to Christians. I'm a liberal and I expect more out of liberals than I do conservatives.
There is also the minority viewpoint to consider. There are many, many more skeptics on this board than believers so that makes it much more prone to the "tyranny of the majority". I have less of a problem with people being abusive to II, because II is so often abuse to them (I have to admit that it still bothers me a little, though). Clancie, at least in the forums that I follow, has handled herself in a pretty good manner. I don't like to see her or anyone else for that matter bullied.
"Intellectual terrorism" still cracks me up, though!
Ignatius said:
If you are so unfamiliar with the posts, how can you claim what you do?
Ignatius said:
Apology accepted. However, your claim has not been proven - until then, it makes no sense saying that your claim has not been "refuted". That it hasn't been "refuted" does not mean it is true.
Ignatius said:
Harm? What good does it do to have a thread solely meant for "harrassing"?
Take your juvenile suggestion and put it where the sun don't shine. Find some evidence of your claims instead.
So if you're a vegetarian, a vegetarian has to hold themself to a higher standard than an omnivore? If you're a libertarian, you expect libertarians to hold themselves to a higher standard than other politcal parties? Basically, if you yourself are something, you hold people to being better because you think you're better? Am I reading this right?Ignatius said:
The minority viewpoint or the presentation of the viewpoint? It seems Interesting Ian gets slammed for being abusive, not just being a minority. Not all minority opinion is slammed. Impractical people, as well as abusive ones, seem to be treated somewhat harshly though. Still, one can't be accused of favoritism; if someone is wrong, they are wrong, and they are corrected, even with fervor.
Interesting Ian
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2004
- Messages
- 7,675
Cleopatra said:
LOL Yes Clancie should bring me to order . . .erm
Cleopatra, you said I could have the last word, so I said "burp".
It was a joke!
Dear me.
Interesting Ian said:
LOL Yes Clancie should bring me to order . . .erm
Cleopatra, you said I could have the last word, so I said "burp".
It was a joke!
Dear me.
uh huh. Classic sign of the abuser. "I wasn't seriously saying degrading/belittling things mocking your position and dignity. It's a joke. you're supposed to know that without me telling you even though I have a past history of being nasty to folks."
Interesting Ian
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2004
- Messages
- 7,675
Jeff Corey said:
But I'm still the supreme number one irritant to the skeptics?
Sorry Towelie, you need to put more work into it
First, Ignatius, thank you so much. I so appreciate your efforts, and Claus's posting behavior has affected me exactly as you said--and not only on Paranormal topics, but in every forum I post to. It is nice of you to "put your neck out" on my behalf when there will be absolutely no benefit for you at all in doing so. In fact, possibly just the opposite.
Thank you for making the point and offering suggestions for an "Intervention", lol. But, frankly, re: "looking up and posting numerous past examples", I respectfully request that you do not bother to play this game with Claus. It is one of the many ways he will interact with you (if you let him) in a way that just ratchets up the noise to signal ratio tremendously and it will continue until -you- give up and admit defeat. (Meanwhile, you'll be doing all that work to post and find examples and respond to what he's saying and make corrections to it and then respond again and again and....finally you realize its taking an awful lot of time and effort and no one else has the slightest interest in what you two are arguing about. .
He will never, ever agree that what you wrote about the way he posts to me was right. Please, don't even waste a minute more of your time trying to argue it to him. (And he will also always have the last word--if you're lucky enough to get it to end).
You've shared your opinion and you don't have to spend precious time backing it up at all, any more than Suezoled or Chanileslie have to spend time finding lots of post to back up their point of view about past discussions he and I have had. Its a matter of opinion. I have mine. He has his.
I won't start a thread, but I think if I just start limiting my posts to the other forums (especially to P, CE & H) it might be a good way to observe the pattern.
My views are just one of so many similar ones over there that it will be interesting to see if Claus still singles me out to attack and argue with.
I'll tidy up a bit here (the Cold Demo thread then...I'm off to P,CE & H (where my interests lie more now anyway). Should be an interesting--even a fun--experiment! Thank you so much for suggesting it!
Thank you for making the point and offering suggestions for an "Intervention", lol. But, frankly, re: "looking up and posting numerous past examples", I respectfully request that you do not bother to play this game with Claus. It is one of the many ways he will interact with you (if you let him) in a way that just ratchets up the noise to signal ratio tremendously and it will continue until -you- give up and admit defeat. (Meanwhile, you'll be doing all that work to post and find examples and respond to what he's saying and make corrections to it and then respond again and again and....finally you realize its taking an awful lot of time and effort and no one else has the slightest interest in what you two are arguing about. .
He will never, ever agree that what you wrote about the way he posts to me was right. Please, don't even waste a minute more of your time trying to argue it to him. (And he will also always have the last word--if you're lucky enough to get it to end).
You've shared your opinion and you don't have to spend precious time backing it up at all, any more than Suezoled or Chanileslie have to spend time finding lots of post to back up their point of view about past discussions he and I have had. Its a matter of opinion. I have mine. He has his.
That's a possibility, but it seems too easy to backfire on me (If I started a thread about myself and how I feel that Claus hounds and attacks me here it wouldn't be too long before I'd be taken to task for "wasting bandwidth" or be told to "settle it through PMs and not keep disrupting the community with the petty bickering." And, these criticisms would be exactly right! lol
Well, I like your idea of testing to see if there is a continuing pattern and then pointing it out to him (for "educational/self awareness/productivity" purposes).
I won't start a thread, but I think if I just start limiting my posts to the other forums (especially to P, CE & H) it might be a good way to observe the pattern.
My views are just one of so many similar ones over there that it will be interesting to see if Claus still singles me out to attack and argue with.
I'll tidy up a bit here (the Cold Demo thread then...I'm off to P,CE & H (where my interests lie more now anyway). Should be an interesting--even a fun--experiment! Thank you so much for suggesting it!