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John Pilger tells it like it is regarding Iran!

Another left wing kook defending a theocratic terror state, not very original.
 
I thought Juan Cole's piece in Salon was a bit better.

Pilger's piece was a little muddled but I think he missed the mark in a few places. He talks about the Pentagon's "ascendance" in foreign policy, forgetting that it has been the Pentagon itself that was the biggest obstacle to Bush launching air strikes or an escalation of any kind. The Generals know they can't control the subsequent escalations and that they are particularly vulnerable to Iran in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

All that being said, I think reducing this to "pilger loves the mullahs" is a kind of ridiculous response to the piece. More substantive criticisms are possible and that kind of reply shows more than a little willingness to use the cheap-shot, instead of the brain. It also isn't true. Pilger is a lefty and concerned with human rights. He is not so blind that the authoritarian structure of Iran goes unnoticed. What he worries about is what kind of death and destruction would ensue from an escalating violent conflict with Iran - not "defending" Iran because he loves their leaders.
 
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Pilger defends Islamic Extremists and goes an a anti US, Anti west rant,and is worshipped by TFT.What else is new?
 
lol @ "defending Iranian extremists"

Is it 2002 again?

How many times did we hear how anti-war activists were "defending Saddam"?

We need a new playbook guys, that one is getting old.
 
I like this part:

This will allow Israel to divide and dominate the region on Washington’s behalf
Yeah, Israel will sure "dominate" the region...

MiddleEastMap-big.gif


and the map doesn't even include Turkey, Afghanistan and Pakistan.
 
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Ya i think he's got a bit too strident and polarized in his sunset years...
 
lol @ "defending Iranian extremists"

Is it 2002 again?

How many times did we hear how anti-war activists were "defending Saddam"?

We need a new playbook guys, that one is getting old.
ANd your "Islamic Extremist pose no threat" has been sort of old since 9/11....
 
dude.

Im just saying you could do a lot better.

Why do you have to slum it?

I picked the pentagon part, there are other weak passages in there that you could criticize - but instead you take the laziest route you could possibly take and criticize a factually challenged piece with a factually challenged slur.

Leave that BS to the simpletons and punch your weight!

EDIT: strawman noted and dismissed. Arguing that Iran represents less of a threat than the Krauthammer position does not mean they represent "no" threat. As with Saddam, the meat and the potatoes of the debate is less about the degree of threat and more about the correct approach to meeting it.
 
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Iran’s crime is its independence. Having thrown out America’s favourite tyrant, Shah Reza Pahlavi, Iran remains the only resource-rich Muslim state beyond US control. As only Israel has a “right to exist”in the Middle East, the US goal is to cripple the Islamic Republic. This will allow Israel to divide and dominate the region on Washington’s behalf, undeterred by a confident neighbour. If any country in the world has been handed urgent cause to develop a nuclear “deterrence”, it is Iran.

From the last sentence, it is very strange for peace activists to end up supporting nuclear proliferation. Hatred of the US and Israel seems to cloud his judgement on this point.

The first sentence of that paragraph is dishonest. Israel, the US, Lebanon and Iraq (amongst others) have very legitimate reasons to be concerned by Iran. I don't need to list them as they are well known. There is also the issue of the massive human rights violations carried out by Iran against their own people. I see no mention of that in his work.

Then we get to the conspiracy theory nonsense:

On both sides of the Atlantic the media have been tasked with preparing the public for endless war.

Would this article have been published if the US and UK governments ran the media in the way he suggests?

During the Bush years, according to the great whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, a military coup took place in the US, and the Pentagon is now ascendant in every area of American foreign policy.

Right.
 
I thought Juan Cole's piece in Salon was a bit better.

Pilger's piece was a little muddled but I think he missed the mark in a few places.

Ya i think he's got a bit too strident and polarized in his sunset years...

You're much too soft on him, but I guess that's as far as a lefty will go to criticize that kook. Yes, I said kook.

Iran is not acting like it's willing to meet its obligation and support the non-proliferation treaty, it's doing everything to make this escalate.

Pilger said:
Obama's America is run by some very dangerous people
And Mullahs getting their hands on a nuclear weapons are not dangerous Mr. Pilger? And their defense minister being a wanted terrorist is not dangerous Mr. Pilger?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8237179.stm
 
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While I may not agree with his reasoning and emotional content, I agree somewhat with Pilger's assessment that Iran has justification for establishing a nuclear deterrent.

Try looking at this objectively.

Iran's neighbors India and Pakistan are nuclear powers. Israel is a nuclear power outside of the NPT, and Israel has been making loud noises in re Iran of late. (Iran does not have clean hands here.) Given the raids on Syria and Iraq, on record, Israel making noise is no idle threat. Should Iran, from their point of view, have to stand bullying or threats from Israel?

No.

If one stands in the shoes of a policy maker in Teheran, whether you like him or not -- I don't much care for any of them myself -- and see out into the world through the Iranian lens, trusting the international community to be an effective curb to nuclear ambitions in everyone else (besides Iran) is an obviously failed policy.

Iran cannot trust the international community and international agreements. Thanks Dr Q of Pakistan for confirming that, as well as Israel's continued under the table nuclear power status. I don't doubt Iran was a bit paranoid about Saddam's actual status, until we broke the egg on that one.

Iran must act in its own interests. Iran chooses to establish a nuclear deterrent. Iran must, since it has no ally in mid to large size with whom to huddle under a nuclear umbrella, as our NATO allies have been able to do.

Of all the criticisms on Iran about nukes, their dishonesty is a perfect mirror to Israeli dishonesty of the 1960's. Out of a perceived strategic necessity as seen from the PoV in Tel Aviv, Israel established a nuclear deterrent capability. A good idea at the time. It is ludicrous to object to Iran's similar moves. Reflect on the years of Pakistani sleight of hand with nukes, and the recent US endorsement of the Indian programs, and one can see that Iran is right to call the entire international community liars and hypocrites. (That Iran is also guilty of the same is not in question).

If Mahmoud the Mouth stands up, and says, "Thanks very much, you people are just picking on us, you ask us to do what you wil not, and cannot, do" he is pretty much right.

Point of interest: Iran is not in Israel-of-the-1960's strategic situation, in terms of the scale of threat to their existence as a nation, so that bit of the parallel breaks down somewhat in the small details.

Iran is a regional power, in a tough region. From a practical matter Iran is justified in establishing a deterrent since, as of this writing, the geni still isn't back in the bottle regarding nuclear weapons. Trusting the international community is a farcical course of action for a nation state to base its security policy on.

Note: A few days back it was the 61st anniversary of Chamberlin's "Peace in our time" game in 1938. What had gone on in Europe up to the sell out of the Czechs and Poles is instructive to any mid-sized Power. Two not-quite-Powers trusted the Powers (international community) for their security. They discovered the utter futility of that trust when their own security was put to the test by other people's interests rising to the fore. An excellent treatment of that series of events of the late 1930's can be found in Leonard Mosley's On Borrowed Time.

You or I or we may find the government of Iran distasteful, evil, or unreliable as a group of oligarchs, theocrats, and tyrants. They aren't stupid, and they are putting their interests first. Since part of their interest is staying in power internally, go figure, the longer view of the risk they are putting their population into seems not to matter enough, yet, to get them to alter their course of action.

I read in the paper today the talks of a strict sanctions regime on Iran. Kagan, may his fat arse boil in oil for all eternity, suggests that sanctions and supporting internal dissent is how to get regime change in Iran. Sure, Robert the Buffoon, see how well trade sanctions and supporting internal dissent did in Iraq? Twelve years of sanctions and Saddam was still in power, still a problem. If someone could please get Kagan to stop calling himself a strategist, I'd be much obliged.

I don't like Iran going nuclear, but I don't blame them. The eternally bickering morons of the international community, which from the Iranian PoV must include the US, do not instill confidence.

DR
 
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If Iran was a responsible country no one would care. But their material support for terrorism, as well as their threats against Israel and their using proxy armies to fight Israel (a country which never threatened Iran) make their being a nuclear power unacceptable.

eta: and Iran continues to send arms and explosives to insurgents in Iraq.
 
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