John Edward - psychic or what?

[John Jones]

You mean the peers thinking merely with the left side of their brain? : )
I think it would be more accurate to say that some peers don't support her views.

No, I mean the peers thinking period.


If you know of any physiologists who still support her, lets see some of their opinions (and qualifications).

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I'm a bit late to this part of the party, and if I missed another reply mentioning this I apologize, but back to the "Cards and pizza" thing. On the Odds Must Be Crazy blog, the pizza recipient says in a comment:



I don't know about where all of you live, but around here it's extremely common for convenience stores attached to gas stations to sell greeting cards and pizza. Casey's is one such chain.

It seems that I should have read the comments. Thanks for that.

So, even less extraordinary than it at first seems.

 

[meg]

Robin, I'm curious. What do you think about psychic Char Margolis? Is she one you "researched"?

 

[John Jones]

From The Woo-woo Credo

http://www.insolitology.com/tests/credo.htm

29. Keep trotting out the one "respectable" scientist who might possibly have said something that could be construed as perhaps giving a hint that it may theoretically support your position. Even better if said scientist has said it outright. Ignore all complaints that the work is 50 years out of date, the scientist has no experience in the field in question or that other experts in the same field think said scientist is a complete loony (and they can prove it, too).

 

[Robin1]

Look Robin,

I understand how frustrating this is for you. I really do. You've been taught all your life that people who have faith in stuff that doesn't exist are to be admired and looked up to, and even revered. So you have faith in lots of things. You believe lots of things without thinking very hard about it, and it makes you feed good about yourself. It makes you feel special. And it make you feel important. Maybe even wise. Mysterious.

But then you come over here and nobody respects your beliefs one whit. They want evidence, and they expect you to understand how logic works, and what logical fallacies are, and they expect you to look critically at the things you believe and justify those beliefs in a reasoned and measureable way. Not one of them thinks "I just know." or "God did it." is an acceptable answer to anything. And they pound you with questions. Why do you think this? And How do you know that? And What makes you think that's important, or special, or unique, or even anything more than a coincidence?

And it is frustrating. It's maddening. It's infuriating! How dare they talk to me like that? Don't they know I'm trying to help them? I'm spreading sweetness and light here, dammit! Don't they know I'm talking about God, here? Don't they know that when a person shares a story like mine, that the appropriate response is to say "Wow! It's a sign!" or "Oh, what a blessing!" or "Thank you for sharing such an amazing story!" But no. These wankers just ask more questions, and act like they don't believe it, or that you didn't remember it right. Some of them even accuse you of lying! These dolts just keep yapping on and on about logic, and science and repeatability and confirmation bias.

How dare they!

Good for you not backing down and running away, Robin. Gads, no, I don't want you to leave! I think this stuff is fun! Wanna know how to get back at me? Quit whining, put your big girl pants on, learn about logic and how to use it, and OUTlogic me. Show us all! Come up with logical and reasonable arguments for your woo. It's that easy. Wanna know how to really get even over that TLA that pisses you off so much? YOU win one. It's that simple. YOU write a cogent, moving, or persuasive post displaying your own skill with language.

Want to do something that will make me shut up and bow to your greatness forever? Learn about the scientific method, and get a basic understanding of the laws of chance, then devise and conduct a scientific experiment that shows you (or anyone else) has psychic ability.

I will warn you though, that if you stick around here for long, things are just going to get more confusing for you for a while. What is most confusing is that piece by piece, little by little, the stuff we say will start making sense to you. And little by little, piece by piece, you'll start realizing that you are looking at the world in a different way now, and that lots of little things that used to make you feel all special and woowoo and mysterious just don't seem do the trick any more. The feng shui living room arrangement just looks dumb, and it never did actually bring you any money. You start counting John Edward's misses, and realize the guy hardly ever gets anything right. You start realizing those wooey newsletters you've been reading are really just full of a lot of meaningless baloney and you let your subscription lapse. You might start using the word "specious". It just goes on and on.

You might even find if you lay off the big macs for a while that those gut feelings you've been having will improve.

Meg,
Looks like my original response to this was deleted by the moderators. I guess they didn't feel it was as "kind" as you consistently prove yourself to be. Oh well, good news for you...I think with this one you may actually be a contender for another TLA award! Congrats!

 

[dafydd]

Meg,
Looks like my original response to this was deleted by the moderators. I guess they didn't feel it was as "kind" as you consistently prove yourself to be. Oh well, good news for you...I think with this one you may actually be a contender for another TLA award! Congrats!

What about actually addressing the points in the post?

 

[truethat]

Truethat, I believe , it basically comes down to this. I interpret these stories using more of my right sided brain (or whatever the correct way to say that is) and you interpret these stories using more of your left. If you ever have an extra 20 minutes I think you would be interested in watching the video of Dr.Taylor that I posted earlier.
As an aside I just want to let people on here know that I do appreciate ( and view but not everything cause so much, just do what I can when I can) the links they post and other suggested books.

Left brain right brain thinking is a myth, I used to think it was true as well, but it's been debunked.

Even so, your interpretation of the incident doesn't validate as anything more than your interpretation of it, even if the LR brain thing was true.

I interpret things more using logic, you interpret them using emotion and you add a whole lot of things to the story that are from your imagination.

 

[jadebox]

Every time I talk about mentalism, I get real close to that line of telling people how tricks are done. It isn't really reading people. Telling the audience that is misdirection so you won't be looking for how the trick is really done.

You don't need to be condescending.

I'm not an expert on magic, but I know that lots of techniques are involved including cold reading. My point was, that people who don't claim any paranormal abilities are able perform much more amazing feats than John Edward.

And, frankly, Edward's feat in the original post can be explained in many ways. I wouldn't even rule out the use of a stooge. Edward has done so many lame things, that I think you were just overwhelmed when one of his tricks turned out a little better.

-- Roger

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Robin, you made a claim of objective fact that some of Jill Taylor's peers support her views. I ask you for the second time to substantiate this claim.

 

[Garrette]

What about actually addressing the points in the post?

It is not in Robin's character to do so, apparently. Among the points that remain unaddressed despite repeated requests/mentions:

1. Inconsistencies in her own retellings of the original story in her own thread

2. Relevant points about even experts being fooled

3. Specifics of her research into fraudulent psychic methods

4. Offers to actually discuss the research she has brought up (i.e., Gary Schwartz including his "Veritas" responses to detractors, and Doctor Taylor)

5. Which comments on her blog are the key ones in relation to her point

6. Reasons xterra should quote the list of her posts he provided when she refused to do even less than that in regard to her blog

7. Criteria she uses to determine which coincidences are just coincidences and which have spiritual meaning

8. The math behind her claims of long odds that make coincidences too improbable

9. Factors that make her unfoolable while others remain foolable

I'm sure there are others, but this will do for what has occurred so far. I will ask another question, though, which I predict will ultimately qualify for the list:


Robin, what exactly makes Meg's posts more mean-spirited than your own in which you constantly call or imply that (most of) the rest of us are closed-minded, incapable of changing our minds, refusing to listen, etc., along with leading lives in which our time is less valuable than yours?

 

[meg]

Meg,
Looks like my original response to this was deleted by the moderators. I guess they didn't feel it was as "kind" as you consistently prove yourself to be. Oh well, good news for you...I think with this one you may actually be a contender for another TLA award! Congrats!

Yeah, the mods try to move all the more nasty, mocking or mean spirited type posts over to Abandon All Hope in the Members Only area. Don't worry. I don't hold it against you

 

[John Jones]

Robin, you made a claim of objective fact that some of Jill Taylor's peers support her views. I ask you for the second time to substantiate this claim.

For the record, I asked her too.

 

[FluffyPersian]

BTW, count me in as another person who's open-minded and who would be happy to see evidence of telepathy and other paranormal phenomena. Because I'm not giving out a million dollars, I'd settle for experimental evidence with a larger p-value (say, .05) than the one required by the MDC.

But anecdotes will never serve as proof for anyone with an ounce of skepticism in them.

 

[FluffyPersian]

OT: BTW, what's the big deal about divulging "how tricks are done," especially if these tricks are used by those claiming psychic abilities? There's no reason to divulge magic tricks that are only used for entertainment. But divulging mentalist used by Edwards and others may help their potential victims. Perhaps such posts could be accompanied by a spoiler warning.

In any case, this information is available elsewhere online.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

OT: BTW, what's the big deal about divulging "how tricks are done?" This information is available elsewhere online, though I won't link to avoid breaking the rule.

Well, magic is said to rely on not knowing how the trick is done, and James Randi is a magician.

Personally, I don't agree. If it were true that magic relied on not knowing how a trick was done, then magicians couldn't admire other magicians.

But it's not my forum.

 

[meg]

I was looking through the forum rules not long ago, looking for this very thing, but couldn't find it.

My specific question regarding this alleged rule is: Even if it is against the rules to discuss magic tricks, John Edward and his ilk do not say they are magicians. They claim to really be mediums or psychic. So is it against the rule to discuss how a medium does his tricks?

 

[dafydd]

I was looking through the forum rules not long ago, looking for this very thing, but couldn't find it.

My specific question regarding this alleged rule is: Even if it is against the rules to discuss magic tricks, John Edward and his ilk do not say they are magicians. They claim to really be mediums or psychic. So is it against the rule to discuss how a medium does his tricks?

It's a tricky one. Magicians and so-called mediums use the same tricks.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I was looking through the forum rules not long ago, looking for this very thing, but couldn't find it.

You should have looked on the forum index:

Conjuror's Corner (3 Viewing)
For a discussion of magic and magicians, NOT TO INCLUDE THE DISCLOSING OF SECRETS

My specific question regarding this alleged rule is: Even if it is against the rules to discuss magic tricks, John Edward and his ilk do not say they are magicians. They claim to really be mediums or psychic. So is it against the rule to discuss how a medium does his tricks?

I don't see how it could be.

 

[meg]

I asked the question in the forum feedback area. Hopefully, maybe, we can get a mod to make a ruling, or at least explain.

And yes, I've seen the warning at the Conjurer's Corner area.

 

[pakeha]

Meg,
Looks like my original response to this was deleted by the moderators. I guess they didn't feel it was as "kind" as you consistently prove yourself to be. Oh well, good news for you...I think with this one you may actually be a contender for another TLA award! Congrats!

You've mentioned Meg's TLA award several times, Robin. Wouldn't it be more to the point to have used that same energy to react to Meg's award to address this:

Robin, you made a claim of objective fact that some of Jill Taylor's peers support her views. I ask you for the second time to substantiate this claim.

For the record, I asked her too.

As have I.
How about it, Robin?