John Edward - psychic or what?

[truethat]

Robin I have to say that the things that you seem to think are miracles are really empty to me.

A Big Mac? A Pina Colada? Questions about your refrigerator? Weird. I am not impressed by this at all.

Here's an interesting story from right before 911 when I still believed in God.

I was cleaning up my ex husband's thrift store

(here are some pictures so you can see how crowded it is)

http://www.mtv.com/photos/thrift-shopping-with-macklemore/1699219/7714211/photo.jhtml#7714214

And I was very overwhelmed about all the crap that he had thrown in a back storage area. We're talking about at least 300 black trash bags of rag clothing he couldn't sell.

I went into the street and was standing there and I said "Man I really need a homeless person with one of those canvas carts" and a few minutes later (less than 5) a man with a canvas cart walked right past me. I wound up paying him for the day and he stayed on working at the store for over 4 years and got off the streets. Weird eh

The next day I had moved the ties in the store and my ex got mad at me for doing so. I reassured him that I'd find another place to display the ties. The next morning when I arrived at the store a man was standing there with a store turn display that was the kind you could put the hooks on and display hanging items. He wanted to donate it to the store. Voila the tie rack.

The next day I had gotten most of the bags out of the back of the store and had gotten down to a bunch of crap that the old manager should never had accepted as a donation. We're talking a bunch of broken bed frames, rusted out sewing machines and typewriters from the 80s. It was horrible and I couldn't figure out what to do with it.

I told Cliff, the homeless helper, I wish someone had a dumpster nearby I'd tell you to go dump it. And the next day I came to work and there was a giant construction grade dumpster in front of the store. They were working across the street to gut renovate a building. The construction foreman told me I could use the dumpster.

After this Cliff said, "Why are you wasting time with all this, ask for winning lottery tickets"

Now that was something I couldn't explain, it was exact, it was witnessed by a lot of other people. And it was a coincidence or serendipity or whathaveyou.

The problem I have with your claims is not that I don't think these things could't have happened or that they didn't freak you out or seem really cool or creepy. The problem I have is how you take this as "proof" of the other side.

Evidence shows that these kinds of things happen all the time. Almost everyone has a story like this. The problem is when you are trying to put meaning into it that isn't provable. You can prove you asked for your cheeseburgers and wanted a big mac and got one for free. I believe you when you tell these stories. You have no real reason to lie because they are pretty mundane stories.

What I'm curious about is how you make the leap from this "happening" to it being something to do with the "other side."

Since it happened on "this side" why do you need some magical mystery answer to explain it to you?

 

[Robin1]

You do understand that by calling the story "noteworthy" I'm saying that it's an interesting story, not that there's any indication that anything other than coincidence is occurring, don't you?

Squeegee, of course I understand that! " Hallelujah" meant, thank God someone is realizing or admitting the pizza story is , out of the ordinary, if you will, a big coincidence. Instead of , as some have suggested here... No biggie, totally common , nothing "Wow" about it. Really? That's almost as ridiculous as some here who are insisting Meg has been nothing but kind. Really? Enough of Meg, but you get my point. Some people here are unwilling to admit , or they really don't see, the obvious.

 

[Pixel42]

Squeegee, of course I understand that! " Hallelujah" meant, thank God someone is realizing or admitting the pizza story is , out of the ordinary, if you will, a big coincidence. Instead of , as some have suggested here... No biggie, totally common , nothing "Wow" about it. Really?

Not really, no. Obviously it's a striking story, if it wasn't we wouldn't be discussing it, so that goes without saying (at least I assumed it did). But it can be a striking story and still be no biggie. Coincidences like it not only happen every day, they are expected to happen every day by anyone with a grasp of basic probability theory.

 

[Robin1]

Robin I have to say that the things that you seem to think are miracles are really empty to me.

A Big Mac? A Pina Colada? Questions about your refrigerator? Weird. I am not impressed by this at all.

Here's an interesting story from right before 911 when I still believed in God.

I was cleaning up my ex husband's thrift store

(here are some pictures so you can see how crowded it is)

http://www.mtv.com/photos/thrift-shopping-with-macklemore/1699219/7714211/photo.jhtml#7714214

And I was very overwhelmed about all the crap that he had thrown in a back storage area. We're talking about at least 300 black trash bags of rag clothing he couldn't sell.

I went into the street and was standing there and I said "Man I really need a homeless person with one of those canvas carts" and a few minutes later (less than 5) a man with a canvas cart walked right past me. I wound up paying him for the day and he stayed on working at the store for over 4 years and got off the streets. Weird eh

The next day I had moved the ties in the store and my ex got mad at me for doing so. I reassured him that I'd find another place to display the ties. The next morning when I arrived at the store a man was standing there with a store turn display that was the kind you could put the hooks on and display hanging items. He wanted to donate it to the store. Voila the tie rack.

The next day I had gotten most of the bags out of the back of the store and had gotten down to a bunch of crap that the old manager should never had accepted as a donation. We're talking a bunch of broken bed frames, rusted out sewing machines and typewriters from the 80s. It was horrible and I couldn't figure out what to do with it.

I told Cliff, the homeless helper, I wish someone had a dumpster nearby I'd tell you to go dump it. And the next day I came to work and there was a giant construction grade dumpster in front of the store. They were working across the street to gut renovate a building. The construction foreman told me I could use the dumpster.

After this Cliff said, "Why are you wasting time with all this, ask for winning lottery tickets"

Now that was something I couldn't explain, it was exact, it was witnessed by a lot of other people. And it was a coincidence or serendipity or whathaveyou.

The problem I have with your claims is not that I don't think these things could't have happened or that they didn't freak you out or seem really cool or creepy. The problem I have is how you take this as "proof" of the other side.

Evidence shows that these kinds of things happen all the time. Almost everyone has a story like this. The problem is when you are trying to put meaning into it that isn't provable. You can prove you asked for your cheeseburgers and wanted a big mac and got one for free. I believe you when you tell these stories. You have no real reason to lie because they are pretty mundane stories.

What I'm curious about is how you make the leap from this "happening" to it being something to do with the "other side."

Since it happened on "this side" why do you need some magical mystery answer to explain it to you?

Truethat, I believe , it basically comes down to this. I interpret these stories using more of my right sided brain (or whatever the correct way to say that is) and you interpret these stories using more of your left. If you ever have an extra 20 minutes I think you would be interested in watching the video of Dr.Taylor that I posted earlier.
As an aside I just want to let people on here know that I do appreciate ( and view but not everything cause so much, just do what I can when I can) the links they post and other suggested books.

 

[xterra]

These are partial quotes. The parts that were removed are not relevant to my comments.

Meg's post (#1208) was an unemotional, calm, well-written, sympathetic attempt to help you understand the intellectual climate of this forum.

Your claim that Meg is writing in an " intentionally misleading, mocking, nasty, mean-spirited way" shows me that you have closed your mind; that you no longer have the ability to understand what (you think people who are) your "opponents" write.

In her response, as I quoted it above, Robin either does not see that I am referring to post #1208, or chooses to ignore that fact.

[...] That's almost as ridiculous as some here who are insisting Meg has been nothing but kind. Really? Enough of Meg, but you get my point. Some people here are unwilling to admit , or they really don't see, the obvious.

Who are the "some"?

I kept hoping that Robin would come to understand what people are saying:

Anecdotes aren't evidence.
Science is not built on faith or belief.
All humans can be fooled at some time, under some circumstances.

She doesn't and isn't going to see that.

Now Robin believes that I am her enemy also, I suppose.

That's equally sad.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Squeegee, of course I understand that! " Hallelujah" meant, thank God someone is realizing or admitting the pizza story is , out of the ordinary, if you will, a big coincidence. Instead of , as some have suggested here... No biggie, totally common , nothing "Wow" about it.

You seem to have forgotten where I also said that it's not as impressive as it's being made out to be.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, so far on this board you've displayed a propensity for hearing what you want to hear, and twisting things to fit your preconceived notions.

 

[Robin1]

You seem to have forgotten where I also said that it's not as impressive as it's being made out to be.

Despite your protestations to the contrary, so far on this board you've displayed a propensity for hearing what you want to hear, and twisting things to fit your preconceived notions.

Squeegee, obviously I didn't forget that because my opening line to you was:
"Squeegee, of course I understand that!".
I even ended that line with an exclamation point. You know, too emphasize what I just said. So, how could you possibly say I seem to have forgotten what you said?
Seems you, Squeegee, in this instance, are hearing only what you want to hear and twisting things.

 

[pakeha]

No-one has been, or could be, less intentionally misleading, mocking, nasty, or mean-spirited than meg in their patient attempts to help you understand why your reasoning is faulty. Her instructive posts are far kinder than your own offensively and wilfully ignorant posts deserve.

Well said.
Our resident S & L embassatrix is dodging the question of why she feels JE's act is worthy of being called anything but entertainment.

... I interpret these stories using more of my right sided brain (or whatever the correct way to say that is) and you interpret these stories using more of your left. If you ever have an extra 20 minutes I think you would be interested in watching the video of Dr.Taylor that I posted earlier.
As an aside I just want to let people on here know that I do appreciate ( and view but not everything cause so much, just do what I can when I can) the links they post and other suggested books.

Robin, are you aware the left brain right brain stuff is just basically more woo? Check out some of the discussions here at JREF on the subject.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Squeegee, obviously I didn't forget that because my opening line to you was:
"Squeegee, of course I understand that!".
I even ended that line with an exclamation point. You know, too emphasize what I just said. So, how could you possibly say I seem to have forgotten what you said?

Because your explanation for what you meant by "Hallelujah" becomes redundant if you actually took in that I had said that.

 

[meg]

Truethat, I believe , it basically comes down to this. I interpret these stories using more of my right sided brain (or whatever the correct way to say that is) and you interpret these stories using more of your left. If you ever have an extra 20 minutes I think you would be interested in watching the video of Dr.Taylor that I posted earlier.

Robin, many of us have seen Dr. Taylor's TED talk, and even read her book. I am an avid TED fan, and watched it years ago. To be fair to you, I watched again when you first posted about it.


I think you are very mistaken about her message, and about your own brain abilities. While you may like to think you've got some overdeveloped lalaland brain, you actually are showing with your insistence that your details details details are SO important, and your near constant thinking about the past and wanting to connect with dead people, and your oh so very insulted sense of self, so worried that you, Robin Stettnisch, might have been mocked or teased, that you are just as mired in what Dr Taylor calls left brain chatter as everybody else.

And I am absolutely certain that if this Harvard trained neuroanatomist knew you were trying to use her story as some sort of support for your belief that you can psychicly receive fattening foods, or your insistence that a charlatan can talk to dead people, she would tell you herself that you have completely missed her point.

 

[Robin1]

Well said.
Our resident S & L embassatrix is dodging the question of why she feels JE's act is worthy of being called anything but entertainment.




Robin, are you aware the left brain right brain stuff is just basically more woo? Check out some of the discussions here at JREF on the subject.

Pakeha, Dr. Jill Taylor is a Harvard trained brain scientist, not a woo scientist.
Stands to reason a brain scientist , actually a neuroanatomist , might know more about the brain than any regular woo or skeptic.

 

[tsig]

Truethat, I'm glad you are back . Truly. But, if you consider Meg's award winning comment to be brilliant and you don't see the dark side she needlessly inserted in it, well then , I guess my gut was wrong about you, too.

Sounds like the JREF has been a gut-wrenching experience for you.

 

[Old man]

I don't, but it is unusual for a pizza place to sell cards...

http://www.vestedbb.com/convenience...in-schoharie-county-new-york-listing-id-18555

Convenience Store ... Pizza Parlor
Schoharie County, NY

The "Classic" Country Convenience and General Store... Offering gasoline, groceries,...and sit down restaurant with Pizza ...

You guy's don't visit the rural North East USA much, do you? One of the photos in the link even shows a greeting card rack.

Well, this makes sense. If there was a lot more to the reading that the rest of us don't know about, then there's not much point in speculating about how it was done. Sounds like you had some of the best brains around to figure it out, anyway. I'm happy to let it drop.

If by chance you still have the recording, though, and you do want to revive the discussion, I would be happy to offer to transcribe it for you.

I thought of a possible scenario that doesn't require JE to have any prior info, based on the possibility of 'introductions'. JE may normally rely on them to give him clues as to where in the audience to focus his attention.

JE says "I'm getting the name 'Meg.'"

Two people at Meg's table glance at her.

JE singles her out.

She thinks that she gave him no sign at all, and she's right, she didn't.



But, in RemieV's case, it's the other way around.

'Joshua' reacts, strongly, and no one else does.

JE thinks "Aha! Nickname? Not too likely, most people use/recognize common nicknames... False name? Why? ... Middle name? Let's run with it!"

RemieV, feel free to shoot this down, too, 'cause I "don't have all the IMPORTANT details" (details that you've chosen to not share with us).

ETA: Here's one in VT.
http://centerofthekingdom.com/shopping/lake-parker-country-store

Local: Eggs, Bread, Cheese, Honey,
Granola, Maple Syrup, Pottery, Hand
Knitted Items and Gifts

Camp and Household Supplies

Pizza Restaurant and Pub
in the rear of the Store

 

[tsig]

delete

 

[ExMinister]

Pakeha, Dr. Jill Taylor is a Harvard trained brain scientist, not a woo scientist.
Stands to reason a brain scientist , actually a neuroanatomist , might know more about the brain than any regular woo or skeptic.

This argument falls down because even Harvard trained scientists are not immune to woo. There are woo physicists and woo physicians too. Just being trained in a certain science does not make one credible. It doesn't make one invulnerable to believing weird or unconventional things. No matter what their credentials, you still need to look at what they are saying with a healthy dose of skepticism.

 

[meg]

http://www.vestedbb.com/convenience...in-schoharie-county-new-york-listing-id-18555


You guy's don't visit the rural North East USA much, do you? One of the photos in the link even shows a greeting card rack.


I thought of a possible scenario that doesn't require JE to have any prior info, based on the possibility of 'introductions'. JE may normally rely on them to give him clues as to where in the audience to focus his attention.

JE says "I'm getting the name 'Meg.'"

Two people at Meg's table glance at her.

JE singles her out.

She thinks that she gave him no sign at all, and she's right, she didn't.



But, in RemieV's case, it's the other way around.

'Joshua' reacts, strongly, and no one else does.

JE thinks "Aha! Nickname? Not too likely, most people use/recognize common nicknames... False name? Why? ... Middle name? Let's run with it!"

RemieV, feel free to shoot this down, too, 'cause I "don't have all the IMPORTANT details" (details that you've chosen to not share with us).

Oh, that's quite good, Old man! Really quite good indeed. You are so right. The people around the "readee" could be sending signals, too.

ETA: AND, if he was basing his read on the non-reaction or even perhaps confused reaction of his tablemates, that would also explain why he didn't say the name Liam himself, but asked a tablemate to do it. He didn't even know that name.

You are so right. This whole thing could have been done without any hot reading at all.

Most excellent! Good catch!

 

[tsig]

delete

 

[kmortis]

Please keep the thread on topic. The topic is not the other posters. Keep it civil.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

 

[Robin1]

This argument falls down because even Harvard trained scientists are not immune to woo. There are woo physicists and woo physicians too. Just being trained in a certain science does not make one credible. It doesn't make one invulnerable to believing weird or unconventional things. No matter what their credentials, you still need to look at what they are saying with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Exminister, true, no one is immune to woo. But, I think it is fair to say that a Harvard trained brain scientist who actually personally had a problem with her brain, should be thought of as more credible than just any old woo. Which reminds me of the book, "Proof of Heaven" by Eben Alexander, who of course was the neurosurgeon who had a NDE. Since , as a neurosurgeon, he has an expertise in the brain, his explanation of why his NDE is real should be given more credence than any regular Joe Schmoe who had an NDE....which by the way there are an estimated 13 million of those Joe Schmoes in the United States : )

 

[meg]

Exminister, true, no one is immune to woo. But, I think it is fair to say that a Harvard trained brain scientist who actually personally had a problem with her brain, should be thought of as more credible than just any old woo.

Yes, it would be quite fair to say that Dr Tayler is probably more credible than any old woo.

It might interest you to read some reviews of her talk from other brain scientists, physiologists, and the like, though.

Here's one link:

http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2008/04/some-critical-t.html