• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

John Edward - psychic or what?

Sometimes, as in Batvette's case, it may well be coincidence. The memory suggestion was a good one. Perhaps in his case, though, his memory of the event really is fairly intact.

In which case, it's possible that some other factor played a part in the situation that is forever lost in time.

Like, for example, a neighbour who sounds similar calling someone with the same name from another room with an open window. Unlikely? Sure. A better explanation than telepathy? Definitely.
 
There are some great reading lists given here, putting the "E into JREF" as so often happens.

Fair enough, though (assuming you allow my belief I have an accurate recollection of this event) I can't shelve it as merely someone returning to my door as when she did she threw the door open, looked at me and exclaimed "What!" and stated that she believed she'd responded to me asking her to come back. When I asked her if she'd really "heard" me calling her she realized it was something other than that.
I think you can understand what motivates my stubborn adherence to this (since I do respond well to valid arguments, see some of my replies in this topic: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250454 and note I did accept an explanation for my second example as non paranormal) since her simple statement appears to be a response directly in reply to what I tried to project to her.
I'm even open to the "missing signals" argument that since we had a mutual belief we shared a "psychic connection" it could lead to her telling herself I might call her back by projecting a thought.
However I don't think that is the reasonable or plausible alternative explanation I would be open to accepting since it had been some time since we had discussed any of that (months) and I had never discussed attempting anything like this with her.

Am I describing something I believe happened because I believed I could make it happen?

Maybe so but I am also under the impression that if it's real that is a prerequisite for the ability to do it- for the both of us.


So sorry I can't project this to any of you. :boggled:

But toward the goal of ending this argument with something accomplished, can you imagine any way, in light of these possible limitations: that it could be something which requires both subjects belief in it, and be something which could require an emotional status which translates for a need or necessity for it- meaning you couldn't do it on a whim-

Is there any way I could have documented this as other than an anecdotal event? I'm thinking even if I pulled out a camera and recorded myself telling the camera I'm going to do it, then do it, it could be argued we set the whole thing up.

Call it special pleading but I just don't see how we could ever replicate this satisfactorily if it's spontaneous and rare. I'd like to know how otherwise. Perhaps it's time for me to try it on others and if I failed enough times I would just shut the heck up about what I thought I could do rather than what I thought I once did.
It will take some time. I guess I will have to ask individuals whether they believe in telepathy, wait some time so the thought is not recent, get the desire to fornicate with them and try it.
Probably not going to work with my male friends. But hey MDC! Is it worth it?

:p

How can you ask?
Of course it's worth it! A million dollars and eternal fame!

And in reply to your post, may I just say that odd, unique and irrepetible communication between people is, in my opinion, part of the deal. Some aspects of my own work actually depend on such 'communication'. Someone earlier gave a great analysis of gut instinct which I'd be willing to bet is spot on.

And remember, we humans seem to be shielded from consciously remembering our 'fails', judging from the difference between transcripts of shows put on by performers like JE and the reported memories of the marks, which makes setting up any sort of real testing of all this a challenge, as Rem could testify.


Someone suggested finding out how the Silva Method has stood up to the test of time. I think that might be an interesting place to start.
All the best, batvette.
 
Like, for example, a neighbour who sounds similar calling someone with the same name from another room with an open window. Unlikely? Sure. A better explanation than telepathy? Definitely.
I too was going to mention this earlier on in the thread, as throughout my life, I have regularly heard my name being called when no one was calling me.

I guess that's a problem with being called Dave in a world where lots of other Daves are being called by other people.
 
This wasn't addressed to me, but it's one of my pet topics:

Remie, my question is why does such unusual random stuff pop into your mind and then happen to be correct on more than a few occasions? What makes it pop? Coincidence? I don't think so.


I think this is the major crux with a lot of issues with believers in the paranormal: Why don't you think so? Given the well-established fact that coincidences -- even incredibly unlikely ones -- happen all the time, what makes you think that couldn't be the cause (or is less likely than a paranormal explanation)?

Is there any coincidence to you that would be so odd that you would actually ever entertain the idea of psychic/supernatural causes?


Let's turn that question around: how odd do you think a coincidence has to be before it's more likely to be a paranormal event than just a coincidence?

Before you answer, are you familiar with Littlewood's Law of Miracles? It's a bit of statistical analysis that states that, by chance alone, people can expect to experience a one-in-a-million coincidence around once a month on average. Extrapolating from that, people will experience a one-in-ten-million coincidence around once a year, and a one-in-a-billion coincidence about once in their lifetime. About 0.1 percent of the population will experience a one-in-a-trillion coincidence before they die. On a planet with seven billion people, that comes out to seven million of them. Going further, that means there are about seven thousand people alive today who will experience a one-in-a-quadrillion coincidence, and about seven people who will experience a one-in-a-quintillion (1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000) coincidence. And I'm willing to bet that all seven of them will attribute their experience to something other than coincidence.

So let's say it happened that you experienced a one-in-a-quintillion coincidence (and I don't think anything that anyone has described in this thread has been anywhere near that unlikely). Either there was something more than mere coincidence going on, or you were one of the lucky seven. The question then becomes, how do you go about determining which is the case?
 
Last edited:
This wasn't addressed to me, but it's one of my pet topics:




I think this is the major crux with a lot of issues with believers in the paranormal: Why don't you think so? Given the well-established fact that coincidences -- even incredibly unlikely ones -- happen all the time, what makes you think that couldn't be the cause (or is less likely than a paranormal explanation)?




Let's turn that question around: how odd do you think a coincidence has to be before it's more likely to be a paranormal event than just a coincidence?

Before you answer, are you familiar with Littlewood's Law of Miracles? It's a bit of statistical analysis that states that, by chance alone, people can expect to experience a one-in-a-million coincidence around once a month on average. Extrapolating from that, people will experience a one-in-ten-million coincidence around once a year, and a one-in-a-billion coincidence about once in their lifetime. About 0.1 percent of the population will experience a one-in-a-trillion coincidence before they die. On a planet with seven billion people, that comes out to seven million of them. Going further, that means there are about seven thousand people alive today who will experience a one-in-a-quadrillion coincidence, and about seven people who will experience a one-in-a-quintillion (1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000) coincidence. And I'm willing to bet that all seven of them will attribute their experience to something other than coincidence.

So let's say it happened that you experienced a one-in-a-quintillion coincidence (and I don't think anything that anyone has described in this thread has been anywhere near that unlikely). Either there was something more than mere coincidence going on, or you were one of the lucky seven. The question then becomes, how do you go about determining which is the case?
Quinn, You also are using coincidence as your fail-safe. Your "go to" explanation when all else fails. I got nothin but hey there's always coincidence. So in essence I really will never ever believe anything else no matter what the story is or the circumstances surrounding it or the chances of it happening or how often those types of things happenever , ever, ever because there's always coincidence.
 
Quinn, You also are using coincidence as your fail-safe. Your "go to" explanation when all else fails. I got nothin but hey there's always coincidence. So in essence I really will never ever believe anything else no matter what the story is or the circumstances surrounding it or the chances of it happening or how often those types of things happenever , ever, ever because there's always coincidence.

By George she's got it!
 
Robin, would you consider reading Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted World?

I had the same experience with "Fads And Fallacies In The Name Of Science" by Martin Gardner. That was about 40 years ago, so it may be dated if it's even in print anymore*.

It really helped me in analyzing tales of the occult.


*eta: apparently still available from many sources. A classic.
 
Last edited:
The thing is, Robin, good intuition comes from common sense, experience and past knowledge. There's an old saying, he's "flying by the seat of his pants", which in aviation lingo means you are flying blind, without instruments. When it is dark, or you are in clouds, without instruments, it is very difficult to tell whether you are flying straight and level, or whether you are actually turning, climbing, descending or just going round in circles. A skilled pilot, however, who's had many many hours in the cockpit, can actually sense, from how his/her butt sits in the seat, and which side has pressure and which doesn't, etc, they can actually discern what the attitude of the plane is, and can, in an emergency "fly by the seat of their pants".

Intuition, or a "gut feeling", is always based on your own experience and knowledge. It is the act of "knowing" something without being able to immediately reason out why you know it, or how you came to it. Those people with the most experience in a field will have a much more trustworthy "gut feeling" than novices. Imagine that you've got, say, a minor medical question. You ask three different friends, one is a chef, one is a teacher, and one is a nurse. All have been at their jobs a long time. And every one of them says, "I don't know for sure, but my gut says ______." Which one are you most likely to listen to? My money says you'd pick the one with the medical training.


You claimed when you first came over here, that you had "done your research" on mediums, but it turns out you've really done no research at all. You just went to several, hoping one would "wow" you, and when one finally did, you claimed he was therefore "real". That's kind of like saying you know a lot about magic tricks because you've gone to see several magicians. Or that you know a lot about cooking because you've been to lots of restaurants.

Now you are trying to claim that you yourself have performed some kind of skeptical analysis of these events you claim are examples of ESP, or messages from dead people, or god.. I'm really not sure what paranormal claim you are making, but I can assure you that you are not using the critical thinking skills necessary to call yourself a skeptic.

For instance, let's look at what we know are true facts.

1. People do lie. Almost everyone lies at one time or another. From little bitty white lies to huge stinkers. People often fib a bit when telling stories to make them more interesting, or to make themselves look better. Sometimes they don't even realize that they're fibbing. (see #5)

2. Computer glitches do happen. Whether it is from user error (a librarian clicked on the wrong customer name or transposed some numbers on a library card), or a programming error, these things happen, and they happen often enough that they are not particularly uncommon. As a matter of fact, this month I have received more than 10 emails from Best Buy addressed to a different person in a different state regarding his account, recent receipts, purchases, delivery dates, etc, apparently because he and I have the same phone number, with different area codes.

3. Fast food restaurant employees make errors, and give people the wrong food, or less food, or extra food quite often.

4. Cruise ships give away lots of pina coladas. It is their most popular drink.

5. People really don't remember things very well. It is a well known fact. There is lots and lots of research about it, many good books on the subject. This is why eye witness accounts and anecdotal evidence are not considered to be very good evidence. As I've said before, we don't actually remember things, we recreate the memory and change it a little every time we tell the story.

6. Coincidences happen. All the time. Our brains are pattern seeking machines, and we look for patterns everywhere, which means we sometimes see patterns where no real pattern exists.


Because you are not thinking critically about this yet, (stick around, you'll get the hang of it.) you have chosen to disregard at least 6 possible logical, reasonable and quite plausible fact based explanations for your "experiences", and chosen a supernatural unproven and completely inplausible explanation instead.

Do you really expect any reasonable person to believe your experiences are anything more than coincidence just because you say you had a dream about some dead people? People dream crazy things all the time. I had an amazingly vivid dream not long ago, in which I could speak French fluently and with ease. I'm sorry, but your dream means nothing. Nor does the fact that you had the dream somehow make your coincidental experiences somehow more than coincidences.

You ask us to trust your gut, your intuition, but I say you don't have enough experience or knowledge of the material to have a trustworthy gut feeling. You are truly flying blind here, and you don't have the experience to fly by the seat of your pants.

Since joining the discussion in your other John Edward thread, I decided to do a bit more of my own research. So here's what I've been reading (or rereading, in some cases) the last few weeks:

Psychic Blues by Mark Edward
The Dead Do Not Talk by Julien J Proskauer
Psychic Mafia by M Lamar Keene
Behind the Scenes with Mediums by David P Abott
13 Steps to Mentalism by Corinda
Annemann's Practical Mental Effects, edited by John J Crimmins, Jr
Red Hot Cold Reading by Herb Dewey and Thomas Seville, PhD

After reading these, would you like to know what my gut tells me about John Edward?

That John Edward is a highly skilled mentalist, meaning he uses a good knowledge of human psychology, misdirection, cold reading techniques, impressive memory skills, plants in the audience, a trustworthy staff, and some elaborately designed and orchestrated trickery in order to seemingly magicly pluck things like refrigerators and Valerie Harper tickets right out of his audience's heads with the same skill and flare as Penn and Teller can catch bullets in their teeth or pull coins out of the air. His act is further aided by an audience eager to applaud every hit and immediately forget every miss.

What are the odds that he actually talks to dead people? My gut says about the same odds as me speaking perfect fluent French.

Zéro absolu.
Meg, just because you use a lot of words and string them all together does not make you correct. I'm stealing that one from Garrette cause I liked it. But really, what you wrote proves to me that you are not really hearing at all most of what I say. For instance, I said I did a lot of research. And I did. But you say you still believe I haven't done any research at all. And I know anyone just winning a free pina colada, or big mac, or getting a mistaken card in the mail is no big deal. What makes it unique are all the circumstances surrounding it ( and combining with that then the chances of it happening) which I described in great detail to support my claim. But you are choosing not to pay attention to those details. I really think it is you who are not using your critical thinking skills.
 
Meg, just because you use a lot of words and string them all together does not make you correct. I'm stealing that one from Garrette cause I liked it. But really, what you wrote proves to me that you are not really hearing at all most of what I say. For instance, I said I did a lot of research. And I did. But you say you still believe I haven't done any research at all. And I know anyone just winning a free pina colada, or big mac, or getting a mistaken card in the mail is no big deal. What makes it unique are all the circumstances surrounding it ( and combining with that then the chances of it happening) which I described in great detail to support my claim. But you are choosing not to pay attention to those details. I really think it is you who are not using your critical thinking skills.
No.

You are making connections concerning the circumstances that surround it and crow barring them into your blind beliefs while ignoring the fact that coincidences happen all the time. The reason (some) people add significance to them is exactly because they invent connections in their heads. The reason they seem so unique is because they are... but no more unique than two things which happen that you can't think of a connection for.

To paraphrase Tim Minchin: To discount coincidence is to drastically underestimate the amount of stuff that happens.
 
Last edited:
Quinn, You also are using coincidence as your fail-safe. Your "go to" explanation when all else fails. I got nothin but hey there's always coincidence. So in essence I really will never ever believe anything else no matter what the story is or the circumstances surrounding it or the chances of it happening or how often those types of things happenever , ever, ever because there's always coincidence.
The onus is on you to show how your experience differed significantly from what we would expect to find with mere coincidence.
Your invented blind belief in dead people communicating with you is not evidence to support your belief that dead people communicated with you.

Understand that coincidence is well documented, well studied and conclusively something that happens with no intervention from paranormal forces.
If you have an experience that is indistinguishable from coincidence, then surely the conclusion has to be that that is what it was?

Unless of course you can show how your experience differs from mere coincidence... which so far, you haven't done.
 
Ex minister, I will definitely look into the book you mentioned. Kinda funny 'cause right now I am reading "Heaven is for Real". .. No surprise there : ) I read your Headbanz story and the Mysterious Case of the Moving Cat Food...I do love stories like that and then trying to figure out the explanation is fun! Even more fun when the explanation indeed turns out to be the supernatural : )

That's happened? Where? When?
 
A skilled pilot, however, who's had many many hours in the cockpit, can actually sense, from how his/her butt sits in the seat, and which side has pressure and which doesn't, etc, they can actually discern what the attitude of the plane is, and can, in an emergency "fly by the seat of their pants".

Meg,

I understand your point, but the above is demonstrably not true.

I have about 4,500 hours as a flight instructor instructing other pilots, including instruction towards the instrument rating.

Without some outside reference - either the real horizon or instruments indicating it or the plane's rate-of-turn, no pilot can "can actually discern what the attitude of the plane is, and can, in an emergency "fly by the seat of their pants"."

Pilots who appear to do so are using some clues, but they're not coming fom their butt area - more common is picking up peripheral cues, such as the angle of whatever light there is, to keep the plane from turning. Without those cues, the human body has no "sensors" to differentiate 1g straight-and-level from a banked, descending turn with 1g. The fluid in the semicircular canals in the inner ear settle down once a turn is started, so it feels exactly as if the plane is still straight-and-level. The end result is often a "graveyard spiral".

Not really relevant to your analogy, which holds. Just don't want any student or prospective pilot laboring under the misconception you put forth - the consequences can be fatal.
 
Last edited:
Robin,

Here are the posts in this thread that I think you should review, with respect to whether you can trust your intuitions. There are 57 of them.

(I was going to post the relevant parts of each one, but decided not to do that. ETA #2, I did copy them, however.)

ETA not all of them are by you.

360 (This was your first entry into the thread, when you said you would bet RemieV agreed with you. I think it's at the bottom of page 9.)
376
378
386
389
405
415
418
425
430
440
476
488
498
524
531
552
556
587
595
600
601
615
682
684
687
690
694
697
702
743
773
798
812
847
867
883
891
905
906
917
923
927
930
944
950
954
962
970
975
986
995
1002
1016
1019
1021
1022
xterra, can you just post the ones where I actually said something about trusting my gut and I will address. Also, if it occurs more than once (as in Remie's ) case regarding the same issue then just post one, I'll know and then address. Thanx!
 
Quinn, You also are using coincidence as your fail-safe. Your "go to" explanation when all else fails. I got nothin but hey there's always coincidence. So in essence I really will never ever believe anything else no matter what the story is or the circumstances surrounding it or the chances of it happening or how often those types of things happenever , ever, ever because there's always coincidence.

It's nothing of the sort. It's one explanation. One of perhaps many. The reason few of us here like the sooper-dooper-natural explanation is because it's never been shown to exist.
 
It's nothing of the sort. It's one explanation. One of perhaps many. The reason few of us here like the sooper-dooper-natural explanation is because it's never been shown to exist.
Resume, on the contrary, the supernatural has been shown to exist on many occasions but some will always just call it a coincidence....no matter what.
 
About a week ago, I did a Netflix search for "Once Upon A Time", as Karen and I are catching up on past episodes.

It came up, but so did Sergio Leone's "Once Upon A Time In The West". It had been discussed some time ago on Filmspotting when they were discussing the top film villains of all time. So we watched it over a couple of nights, finishing it Wed. night.

Yesterday we were painting our hallway and had Pandora on a Chris Isaac mix. A Dire Straits song came on, and it sounded like "Once Upon A Time In The West", one of their hits. I checked Pandora, thinking this was the kind of coincidence it would be fun to post here, and (drum roll please)...

It was a different song, off of Brothers In Arms.

Normally, we "file" thousands of "misses" like this, if we even notice them at all. Once in a great while there's a "hit", and it seems remarkable only because the background has been lost.

BTW, when Karen and I note coincidences, we usually say,

1) "What are the chances?" or...

2) "How do it know?" (from a joke about Thermos bottles that my Mom used to tell) or...

3) "Call James Randi!"

Seriously, Karen is more a believer than I am. But we still joke about these little coincidences, though I think in her heart of hearts she gives them more import than I do.
 
Resume, on the contrary, the supernatural has been shown to exist on many occasions but some will always just call it a coincidence....no matter what.

It has? Where? In what peer-reviewed journal might I read of this.

I'll ask you the same question that I ask of all paranormal enthusiasts. If the supernatural or paranormal were shown to exist, it would be a world-changing event. Nothing would be the same. Science would have to re-assess and perhaps re-invent itself. It would spawn myriad new areas of investigation.

Why haven't we heard about it?
 

Back
Top Bottom