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John Edward - psychic or what?

Remie - my bad... the threads weren't merged. Either someone suggested that the discussion should be moved to the existing John Edward thread or they dropped in from Robin's "Proof of life after death" thread, I believe.
This thread was bumped by Robin herself (post #360).

RemieV,
I happened upon your thread...and by "happened upon" I mean I was thoroughly and deliberately searching for any and all threads about John Edward on this site! : )
Anyway, pretty amazing story, I agree. Although after a new refrigerator, a Valerie Harper connection, and a tooth in the pocket... I can't say I'm surprised! I am surprised, however, that you are asking people to explain how he did it... I KNOW how he did it and I'm willing to bet you do too! : )

She abandoned the "Proof of afterlife" thread she herself had started and continued the argument in this one, apparently believing that she'd found a fellow Edward fan in Remie.
 
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This thread was bumped by Robin herself (post #360). She abandoned the "Proof of afterlife" one she herself had started and continued the argument in this one, apparently believing that she'd found a fellow Edward fan in Remie.

Thanks. I followed the discussion from one thread to the other, but thought they'd been merged.
 
^
Me, too.
An interesting strategy for an up-front bleever.



This thread was bumped by Robin herself (post #360).

She abandoned the "Proof of afterlife" thread she herself had started and continued the argument in this one, apparently believing that she'd found a fellow Edward fan in Remie.

Well spotted, Pixel42.
Robin, just out of curiosity, how much has this JE performance cost you?
 
Yeah, about 50%. My statistical analysis stands, despite these contortions applied to the meaning of "belief in God". Why not just admit that your flip statement cannot stand up to the sort of scrutiny your statements apply to others?

Why not admit that you know nothing about life in Belgium?
 
Oh okay I don't understand the flawed and irrelevant articles by authors whose own offered personal anecdotes don't even support the premise of the article.

The articles cite studies which state that people were asked how they heard about the 9/11 attacks, and go on to discuss how survey respondents changed details about their stories. The provided details about the studies never cite any examples of how these details could change the basic fact of how one heard about the attacks. The authors both suggest some vagueness about their own stories but then go on to provide a clear account of how they heard about the 9/11 attacks which no details changed at all.

My own clear memory of 9/11 is of watching the events unfold via the internet at my place of work from about 9 a.m. This false memory is not surprising given that it was early morning where the events were taking place, and my thoughts and sympathies were so engaged with the people who were experiencing it and reporting it. Nevertheless I know that it must in fact have been well into the afternoon when I saw the first report, as I was in the UK when it happened.

The fact that people have clear memories of the circumstances under which they learned of 9/11 doesn't mean those memories are accurate. That's the point you seem to continually be missing.
 
I accept the faults of the human memory, even to an extent my own.

Interesting clue in the above quote.

It seems to imply that your memory may be faulty, but to a lesser "extent" than the rest of humanity.

If that's what you meant, I'll repeat a word I used before: hubris.

If its not, and you stipulate that your memory is subject to the same faults as everyone else, then maybe we're making progress! ;)
 
My own clear memory of 9/11 is of watching the events unfold via the internet at my place of work from about 9 a.m. This false memory is not surprising given that it was early morning where the events were taking place, and my thoughts and sympathies were so engaged with the people who were experiencing it and reporting it. Nevertheless I know that it must in fact have been well into the afternoon when I saw the first report, as I was in the UK when it happened.

The fact that people have clear memories of the circumstances under which they learned of 9/11 doesn't mean those memories are accurate. That's the point you seem to continually be missing.


I don't care to discuss this with someone who has seen me directly quote the question as being how one heard about the 9/11 attacks and describe that he saw them unfold at work on the internet- but offer it is of great significance that he had forgotten it was afternoon not morning.

you still saw then unfold at work on the internet. the answer to the question is entirely unchanged.

how silly anyway! At what point did you ever think the jets hit the towers at 3 or 4 AM NY Time?

Great! You've proven that at some point your own recollection of 9/11 was completely absurd.
 
, and you stipulate that your memory is subject to the same faults as everyone else,

As if every individual in the entire history of humanity all has equal memory capacity.

Noting the absurdity of a Ronald Reagan comparison.

I will repeat. Memory errors could not explain the huge shifts in variables which would then allow another explanation.

What have I forgotten or added to this which shifts the story to this woman having second thoughts about leaving and instead she decided a minute or so later she did not want to return to be with her boyfriend but spend the night with me instead? That is a BASIC PREMISE OF THE EVENT not a detail. How many times have I said this just to have you people keep harping about errors in details of memorable events?
Did terrorists fly planes into the towers or did aliens melt los angeles? My memory is good enough to know our relationship was always platonic. She didn't come back for a mutual attraction, due to "missed signals of a developing romance" or whatever someone was trying to alter my story to fit THEIR beliefs!


I know my recollection is accurate. I don't care about anyone else's 9/11 delusions.
 
Oh okay I don't understand the flawed and irrelevant articles by authors whose own offered personal anecdotes don't even support the premise of the article.

The articles cite studies which state that people were asked how they heard about the 9/11 attacks, and go on to discuss how survey respondents changed details about their stories. The provided details about the studies never cite any examples of how these details could change the basic fact of how one heard about the attacks. The authors both suggest some vagueness about their own stories but then go on to provide a clear account of how they heard about the 9/11 attacks which no details changed at all. Even a user who tried to dog pile into the discussion committed the same logical fallacy, offering superfluous details they claim they may be in error about, yet stating:


You've said this at least twice, and I've asked you how you know that "no details changed at all" twice. What is your evidence for this claim?

As if every individual in the entire history of humanity all has equal memory capacity.
The point you are missing at this point seems intentional.


I will repeat. Memory errors could not explain the huge shifts in variables which would then allow another explanation.
So it's more likely that telepathy, something that has no way to exist scientifically, and has never been proven in this history of time, exists than it is that your human memory is faulty. Someone else said it upthread - hubris.
 
I would be extremely disinclined to say I'm "certain" of anything. I would hope no one twists that; it's just I'm not a big fan of certainty because it strikes me that most people who walk around being certain all the time are fools.

If we could rephrase the question such that you are curious what I BELIEVE, things become a lot easier.

What I believe is that this thread should never have been merged, because somehow it turned into a swamp of crap. My original reason for posting the thread over a year ago was to ask around and see if anyone could come up with a plausible mechanism to an extremely particular piece of information John Edward managed to, seemingly, pull straight out of his butt. Or the ether. Or whatever. Essentially, I was saying, "Here is this trick I saw. How would you go about performing the same trick?"

No one was able to give an answer that was in the least bit plausible. A bunch of stuff about credit cards and background checks and plants - it's just not feasible in the real world. No Las Vegas casino employee is going to toss John Edward information on their guests. It just ain't gonna happen. That's fantasy thinking. Sure, it's much more probable than psychics being real, but it still doesn't stand as an explanation - particularly since Edward's readings mostly suck.

And what he did when I saw him would be significant IF John Edward was able to perform with the same degree of accuracy over and over again, pretty much all the time.

But he isn't. That has been illustrated. I'll probably never know the mechanism for how he came about the ONE piece of information he has ever given that was scarily accurate because, more than likely, the explanation is mundane - like that guy's wife called up John Edward's crew and was like "Hey, how about you impress my husband real hard in your show."

See, there would be absolutely no way for me to track that, but it is worlds - and I mean many, MANY worlds more likely than him being psychic, because the brutal fact is he is honest to god just not that good. I've been to his show twice now, and read transcripts of many others, and he quite simply doesn't 'hit' that well.

And, Robin, I have read your experience, and I completely understand why you would want to believe in him. But, and this is completely objective as I have no horse in this race (being certain of nothing), it isn't terribly impressive. And I mean even just by comparison to what John Edward does on a regular basis - completely excluding the major hit he got, which I witnessed.

What I mean is that what he did for you sounds exactly like cold reading, and I believe that the reason you feel it stands as a major hit is because you DO have a horse in the race.

I know you believe you ARE being objective, and that we are alike in that - but the fact is that I didn't go see Edward wanting to contact a real person. I went under a false name with a false backstory, and there was absolutely nothing he could say that would've gotten to me. THAT is objectivity.

The difference between our stories is simply that I was looking for a mechanism when I posted, and you aren't. Rather than believe in Edward, truly step back and look at what he claimed and how he could've gotten there.
Remie, I appreciate your answering my question. I really did consider everything you said, but, at the end of the day, don't agree. For me, well, I really just do agree to disagree. Since your feelings are clear, instead of saving that pina colada for you, I am just going to drink it. : ) However, I will still save you a spot on the beach. Because like you said, you can just never be certain. Peace.
 
As if every individual in the entire history of humanity all has equal memory capacity.

Noting the absurdity of a Ronald Reagan comparison.

I will repeat. Memory errors could not explain the huge shifts in variables which would then allow another explanation.

What have I forgotten or added to this which shifts the story to this woman having second thoughts about leaving and instead she decided a minute or so later she did not want to return to be with her boyfriend but spend the night with me instead? That is a BASIC PREMISE OF THE EVENT not a detail. How many times have I said this just to have you people keep harping about errors in details of memorable events?
Did terrorists fly planes into the towers or did aliens melt los angeles? My memory is good enough to know our relationship was always platonic. She didn't come back for a mutual attraction, due to "missed signals of a developing romance" or whatever someone was trying to alter my story to fit THEIR beliefs!


I know my recollection is accurate. I don't care about anyone else's 9/11 delusions.

IOW you mentally commanded her to come back and she did.
 
So it's more likely that telepathy, something that has no way to exist scientifically

now that we know this is your position we'll just dismiss all the scientists.

don't need those guys. we know everything already.

Edit: If you would word that as "no way to be shown to exist with current scientific methodology" I would be happy to endorse that.

I have a problem with implying it cannot exist because we cannot document it with current scientific knowledge.
 
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now that we know this is your position we'll just dismiss all the scientists.

don't need those guys. we know everything already.

Ahh.. the old "If we don't know everything, my woo is true" gambit.
 
What I believe is that this thread should never have been merged, because somehow it turned into a swamp of crap. My original reason for posting the thread over a year ago was to ask around and see if anyone could come up with a plausible mechanism to an extremely particular piece of information John Edward managed to, seemingly, pull straight out of his butt. Or the ether. Or whatever. Essentially, I was saying, "Here is this trick I saw. How would you go about performing the same trick?"

No one was able to give an answer that was in the least bit plausible. A bunch of stuff about credit cards and background checks and plants - it's just not feasible in the real world. No Las Vegas casino employee is going to toss John Edward information on their guests. It just ain't gonna happen. That's fantasy thinking. Sure, it's much more probable than psychics being real, but it still doesn't stand as an explanation - particularly since Edward's readings mostly suck.

Forgive me if a lot of swamp crap is about me, Robin asked me to share a personal story I had alluded to way back in the thread, I did so with hesitation knowing the result would be the target of critical posts with my weakness in wanting to argue against what are IMO logical fallacies drawing the argument out.
Since then most have been replies.
I had also offered what if Edwards was a telepath but within a much smaller scope of abilities (as I experienced it) and saw how gullible people were and he decided ha wanted to get rich off it. There is only evidence he is a big nothing, but what I have experienced looks like nothing as well I could prove.
IIRC Edwards was caught long ago having his crew bug audience members in line as they walk in the building?
 
Remie, I appreciate your answering my question. I really did consider everything you said, but, at the end of the day, don't agree. For me, well, I really just do agree to disagree. Since your feelings are clear, instead of saving that pina colada for you, I am just going to drink it. : ) However, I will still save you a spot on the beach. Because like you said, you can just never be certain. Peace.

For the record many plausible explanations had been given for Remie's experience, Remie choose to ignore them all and embrace the con.
 

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