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John Edward - psychic or what?

Facebook?

However they got the guys name, and I suppose they had to have gotten it someplace, it doesn't take long to look folks up on Facebook.

You got pictures, names, interests, age... Seems like everyone has a page these days. Does Liam?
 
RemieV said:
We're going to need to have ten people in the audience who are paying attention to who gets a reading during the show. Then we're just gonna have to walk up to those people as they exit, corral them, and ask them what's up.
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Yikes. I wouldn't expect any sort of cooperation from them. Even if we were to walk them through what happened, if they've just received a 'reading' from JE given them a message from a loved one, they're going to remember the 'hit' and how gosh-darn good it felt. Now, along comes some stranger relating details about their reading that, although true, they haven't fixated on, or have been pushed to the side from the emotional weight of the experience. I'd expect them to be either outright hostile or bawling buckets of tears.

If one was to do this, it would have to be handled very delicately, and it would probably only happen once, since if JE ever got wind that there were large groups of organized skeptics in his audience (shouldn't he KNOW that already?!?) he would probably do something to make sure it didn't happen again.
 
RemieV said:
He pointed toward the table behind me, where Liam was sitting, and said that he was getting the name 'Joshua'. I am again using a fake name of the same level of popularity. And I don't mean that he said he was getting a 'j' or the name 'Josh' or the feeling of a male presence. I mean that John Edward pointed at the table where Liam was sitting and said he was getting the name Joshua.

So Liam stood up. One of the ushers brought him a microphone so that he could communicate with Edward. Edward again said that he had gotten the name 'Joshua', and then said that there was something weird about it, because he had the sensation that the name was LIAM's. Then Edward paused for a moment. Liam had not said anything at this time. Edward said that, though Liam's name was Joshua, he had not introduced himself that way to the rest of his table. Edward then asked Joshua to hand the microphone over to someone else at the table, and then asked that person what Joshua had introduced himself as. The person said, "Liam."

Edward then asked Joshua to take out his driver's license and show it to everyone else at the table. The driver's license said that his name was Joshua Liam Smith.
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This screams to me that the likely source of Edward's information was a glance by someone at Liam's license.

I think it's possible that someone who works for Edward happened to see Liam's license - perhaps through a transparent window of his wallet - when Liam opened his wallet to do anything from paying for a drink to checking that he had cash to making sure he had his identification just in case it was required for entry to putting his ticket away after entering.

What if he put his ticket stub in his wallet at the table in front of the other guests after introducing himself as Liam?

I've read several stories where mentalists (including James Randi) would luckily come by information through the natural course of events before or during showtime and feed that information back. In fact, I can't remember which author it was, but one mentalist said he always kept an eye out for these sorts of things, because nothing impresses the audience more than these apparently impossible feats.
 
By the by, for those who are curious, here is my John Oliver stuff. It's crazy impressive, and it comes down to two possibilities: either he is extremely dedicated to appearing psychic and really does his homework, or he's really psychic. I find the former to be more believable, and yet somehow it isn't an entirely satisfying explanation. I feel I'm missing a step. This is similar to when I sat down and decided I was going to figure out exactly how Penn & Teller's bullet catch is performed. I took the trick apart, came up with an explanation, and thought, "Yes, that's how it could be done, but it doesn't feel quite right."

Months later, I found out the real explanation. Mine had been a single step off. It feels like that.

When I was on shoot for 'Door to the Dead', I met medium John Oliver. I decided early that I was going to ask him for a reading regarding my missing uncle, Duane. Duane has been missing since 1989. When I met Oliver, he claimed to not know me or my work. I was added to the cast very late in the game, so this is not terribly surprising. Additionally, he claimed to not know I worked for Randi.

The shoot was three days long. The hotel had bad internet which rarely worked at all. Cell phones didn't work anywhere - not in the hotel, or at the shoot site. You could occasionally get a signal when in the car travelling in between.

I told the make-up artist early on that I planned to ask Oliver for a reading on my uncle. I did not give her details about my uncle, and I did not give his name.

My web site, if you dig around, has information on my uncle. You have to at least sort of know what you're looking for, or wade through around a hundred articles.

On the day that I told Oliver I wanted a reading, I did it from the actual shooting location. We did not, thereafter, leave that location - meaning that there was no cell service or internet from the time I asked until the time he gave the reading.

The reading was given in a dark car on the way back to the hotel. Oliver had his eyes closed. I did not speak at all.

1) Oliver said he was getting 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest', and felt that it was a hospital environment.

- My uncle was schizophrenic, and was, for some time, committed to a mental facility.

2) Oliver said he was getting military service.

- My uncle was in the Navy.

3) Oliver said that he was getting military hospital, but not the same hospital as the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest one.

- My uncle was born on a military base.

4) Oliver said that he was getting the sensation of more than one person within this person, one arguing with another.

- My uncle was, again, schizophrenic.

5) Oliver said that my uncle had tattoos.

- Unverifiable.

6) Oliver said my uncle had gastrointestinal issues.

- Unverifiable.

7) Oliver said that my uncle listened to the television very, very loudly.

- When my uncle lived alone in his apartment, the neighbours frequently called the police for noise disturbances based upon how loud his television and/or radio were.

8) Oliver said that he could see my uncle wandering away down a road with no clear idea where he was going.

- My uncle used to leave home and hitchhike without telling anyone.

9) Oliver said that my uncle is dead.

- Unverifiable.

10) Oliver said that the body is in the woods.

- Unverifiable.

11) Oliver said that my uncle shot himself.

- Unverifiable.

The majority of that information can be gleaned from my web site. Oh, it's twisted up into a nicer package than the way that I phrased it. It looks prettier, and more otherworldly, but it's the same information.

The reason I feel unsatisfied with that explanation, as though I am missing a piece of the trick, is that so far as I can tell this would require Oliver to have looked up what he was supposed to say far in advance of saying it. No one on the set knew the full story, and those are some crazy details. At best, someone might have told him that I would like a reading, and he might've gone online to see what I might be asking him, and might've sat there and memorized the whole thing. But it doesn't seem quite right. It seems like a step is gone. I don't know what.

Anyway, my point in relaying that... Edward wasn't doing cold reading. He just wasn't. Cold reading doesn't impress me, and I know how to identify it. What he was doing was more along the lines of what Oliver did with me - somewhere between warm and hot reading. In Oliver's case, even though I don't know the precise mechanism, I err on the side of not-psychic. Now what would be really interesting is if I could come up with the answers to those unverifiables, and determine if they were correct. If they were, I may have to reassess my belief structure. ;)
 
Tamarillicent said:
Facebook?

However they got the guys name, and I suppose they had to have gotten it someplace, it doesn't take long to look folks up on Facebook.

You got pictures, names, interests, age... Seems like everyone has a page these days. Does Liam?
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He has a Facebook - it's set to private. You can, however, see a photo of him - and he is dressed like a clown.

I don't deny that there are ways of figuring this out that are non-paranormal. I'd just like to know what the mechanism was - in the same way as I mentioned in my previous post that the bullet catch explanation I came up with didn't seem quite right, neither does this - UNLESS he had everyone's names that would be in attendance in advance of the show. And that is the part I do not see.
 
Josh/Joshua is one of the most popular names in the US. I suspect throwing out the name was a shotgun thing that just happened to hit a target. After "Liam" reacted it was all cold reading.

-- Roger
 
Ok, I said this earlier in the thread but it doesn't look like anyone was paying attention, so I am repeating it:

How about if JE had some people stationed by the box office to get into conversation with people purchasing tickets before the show? A person probably would not have remembered that they had a conversation with a random person before a show. Especially if it was hours before or the day before the show.

They could have people there a number of times until they got enough useful info and then just stop. This is something that you could actually watch for without having to attend his show or stand on line and pretend you were going to attend his show. This is one way that you could definitely get info on the last minute ticket buyers.
 
jadebox said:
Josh/Joshua is one of the most popular names in the US. I suspect throwing out the name was a shotgun thing that just happened to hit a target. After "Liam" reacted it was all cold reading.

-- Roger
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Hah... Well, it turns out that when assessing the popularity of the name, I chose wrong.

Joshua is #4 most popular name in Canada.

The real name is #40 in Canada.

Liam is #5 most popular name in Canada.

The real name is #839 in the United States, and not listed in Canada at all. ;)
 
RemieV said:
1) Oliver said he was getting 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest', and felt that it was a hospital environment.

- My uncle was schizophrenic, and was, for some time, committed to a mental facility.
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He felt that it was a "hospital environment" - that could cover a lot of things. Plus, he wasn't specific about who was involved with this "environment" or in what capacity. And was 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' mentioned that day within his hearing?
2) Oliver said he was getting military service.

- My uncle was in the Navy.
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But he didn't give any details about who was in the military, or which branch. If it was the Navy, I'd have expected to hear something about sea, or water, or ships.
3) Oliver said that he was getting military hospital, but not the same hospital as the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest one.
- My uncle was born on a military base.
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The 'Cuckoo's Nest' hospital was a civilian one. And why the second mention of that film, I wonder? Maybe the first mention had made you involuntarily give something away, a sigh or gasp, perhaps?
And, again, he said nothing specific about the hospital that would have connected it to your uncle. It was you who made the connection, not him.
4) Oliver said that he was getting the sensation of more than one person within this person, one arguing with another.

- My uncle was, again, schizophrenic.
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That's the popular idea of schizophrenia, and it's usually wrong. OK, some schizophrenics do hear voices, but only a minority of them (My ex was schizophrenic and he didn't hear voices, he just had delusions.)
To me, that particular 'hit' sounds quite a lot like warm reading - especially when coupled with the repeated mentions of 'One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest'. He didn't give any details of your uncle's actual behaviour - schizophrenia doesn't mean "double personality" and is in fact just a general term that covers a huge variety of symptoms. I think Oliver just had a general idea of "mental illness!" and gave you his misconception of it.
(Of course, if your uncle's symptoms did consist of hearing voices and arguing with them out loud, it would be a different story.)

7) Oliver said that my uncle listened to the television very, very loudly.

- When my uncle lived alone in his apartment, the neighbours frequently called the police for noise disturbances based upon how loud his television and/or radio were.
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He could have guessed that your uncle was old, and old people often are a bit deaf and put their TVs and radios on very loudly.
8) Oliver said that he could see my uncle wandering away down a road with no clear idea where he was going.

- My uncle used to leave home and hitchhike without telling anyone.
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That's you making the connection again, not Oliver. He said nothing about it being a vision of a literal event - if it hadn't meant anything to you, he'd just have said that it was what your uncle had often felt like, or something similar.
 
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I still think a 'hostile interview' would be the best way to catch JE in something.

Put him in a situation where he doesn't have control of the process. Change things up on him.
 
jadebox said:
Josh/Joshua is one of the most popular names in the US. I suspect throwing out the name was a shotgun thing that just happened to hit a target. After "Liam" reacted it was all cold reading.

-- Roger
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Joshua was not the guys real name. She just used that as an example.

Neither was Liam.
 
You're working awfully hard to make Edward's trick seem more amazing than it was. Just because you found yourself caught up in it doesn't make it special. Nothing you describe requires more than a simple case of cold reading.

-- Roger
 
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Regarding the Oliver reading, I'm with Sophia8. Add on top that Oliver knew you before hand (and may well make it a standard practice to conduct basic research on those who are on his show) and that you mentioned to the make-up artist that you were going to specifically ask about your uncle, and I see no mystery here, simply skill.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Joshua was not the guys real name. She just used that as an example.

Neither was Liam.
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Okay .... but that doesn't affect my point. It's still likely to have been a shotgun approach - just calling out a name and looking for a reaction.

Even unusual names are more likely to produce a "hit" than most people think.

-- Roger
 
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RemieV said:
By the by, for those who are curious, here is my John Oliver stuff. It's crazy impressive,

1) Oliver said he was getting 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest', and felt that it was a hospital environment.
- My uncle was schizophrenic, and was, for some time, committed to a mental facility.
2) Oliver said he was getting military service.
- My uncle was in the Navy.
3) Oliver said that he was getting military hospital, but not the same hospital as the One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest one.
- My uncle was born on a military base.
4) Oliver said that he was getting the sensation of more than one person within this person, one arguing with another.
- My uncle was, again, schizophrenic.
5) Oliver said that my uncle had tattoos.
- Unverifiable.
6) Oliver said my uncle had gastrointestinal issues.
- Unverifiable.
7) Oliver said that my uncle listened to the television very, very loudly.
- When my uncle lived alone in his apartment, the neighbours frequently called the police for noise disturbances based upon how loud his television and/or radio were.
8) Oliver said that he could see my uncle wandering away down a road with no clear idea where he was going.
- My uncle used to leave home and hitchhike without telling anyone.
9) Oliver said that my uncle is dead.
- Unverifiable.
10) Oliver said that the body is in the woods.
- Unverifiable.
11) Oliver said that my uncle shot himself.
- Unverifiable.
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I’m at a complete loss as to exactly what you find “crazy impressive” about any of this.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
Somehow, I'm still not impressed.
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Neither am I, Ask 1,000 psychics to guess a random card your holding out of a deck and the odds are at least one will be very close or exactly right.

I'm still certain he got his info beforehand, if and only if this Hit is as spectacular as it really seems to be, memory can be a funny thing.
 
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