John Edward - psychic or what?

[wardenclyffe]

I think RemieV too readily dismisses the idea of casino staff helping. I assume JE was performing in Vegas for a run of at least a week. If word gets out all over town that he'll give that $20 (or whatever) to whomever can give him juicy info, I think every concierge in town would give him info on people who bought tickets. Yes, Vegas is all about discretion, but it's also all about money. A concierge would not feel bad. He wasn't telling the cops. He wasn't telling a wife about a cheating husband. He'd just be helping the act. In fact, he'd be part of the act and he'd get paid for it.

This would be a fairly simple way that JE could receive info from many different sources, so it wouldn't matter where they bought the ticket or where they were staying or whether they used a credit card---as long as JE were in a buying mood and a concierge were in a selling mood (and when are they not?). This way, JE has names, seat numbers, hometowns, overheard stories. Heck, a concierge could easily take a cell phone photo of "the mark" and e-mail it to the proper address.

I'm willing to believe that this is a possible scenario that would require very little organization. I get the sense that word travels fast in Vegas and no one would want to spoil a good thing by blabbing. And you'd only need a few willing participants to make it look like JE had some really solid hits.

Ward

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Yeah, but one person blabs about a scheme like that and Edwards' career takes a huge hit.

Probably wouldn't end it outright, but set it back.

Besides, how many people would have to keep their mouths shut? Far more than seems reasonable. The 'Mark Felt' ratio springs to mind.

I think most working 'psychics' surround themselves with people who are talented enough to handle their business affairs, but completely and totally credulous towards the psychic claims.

I think if he really is employing others to gather intelligence on 'marks' for him, the number of people doing it must be pretty small and they've got to be paid well.

Offering a double sawbuck for personal info openly would be begging to be exposed.

 

[ynot]

I think RemieV too readily dismisses the idea of casino staff helping. I assume JE was performing in Vegas for a run of at least a week. If word gets out all over town that he'll give that $20 (or whatever) to whomever can give him juicy info, I think every concierge in town would give him info on people who bought tickets. Yes, Vegas is all about discretion, but it's also all about money. A concierge would not feel bad. He wasn't telling the cops. He wasn't telling a wife about a cheating husband. He'd just be helping the act. In fact, he'd be part of the act and he'd get paid for it.

This would be a fairly simple way that JE could receive info from many different sources, so it wouldn't matter where they bought the ticket or where they were staying or whether they used a credit card---as long as JE were in a buying mood and a concierge were in a selling mood (and when are they not?). This way, JE has names, seat numbers, hometowns, overheard stories. Heck, a concierge could easily take a cell phone photo of "the mark" and e-mail it to the proper address.

I'm willing to believe that this is a possible scenario that would require very little organization. I get the sense that word travels fast in Vegas and no one would want to spoil a good thing by blabbing. And you'd only need a few willing participants to make it look like JE had some really solid hits.

Ward

Don’t you think those casino staff that helped a famous con artist out for a few dollars would have then exposed the cheating of the famous con artist to the media for substantially more dollars?

Isn’t it easier, simpler, safer, more informative, more assured and less expensive just to get the information from Liam? Why do you think Liam wasn't surprised or impressed (assuming things have been described accurately).

 

[JoeyDonuts]

Would anyone notice if the same person had gone to multiple JE shows and been 'identified' multiple times, playing the shill all along?

I guess what I'm saying is, does he have 'groupies' that follow him around from town to town, or is every audience mostly locals that would have no way of knowing if the same guy was at a show the last week?

 

[wardenclyffe]

I'm just suggesting it as a possible scenario. There are people at casinos (I'm told) who can procure all sorts of illegal stuff for the right price. This would be easy, safe money.

I believe that RemieV has done her research and knows what she's doing as a P.I.. I'm trying to come up with a scenario that fits what she believes she has found.

Ward

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I would actually suggest following him around to see if any of the same people who get 'hit' repeat at a different show. It would have the direct result of giving him more money, which I find distasteful as all hell, but has this been tried before?

You'd think after a couple times, JE or his people would notice the same person in the audience. The person doing this would need multiple wigs and mustaches.

 

[RemieV]

Don’t you think those casino staff that helped a famous con artist out for a few dollars would have then exposed the cheating of the famous con artist to the media for substantially more dollars?

Isn’t it easier, simpler, safer, more informative, more assured and less expensive just to get the information from Liam? Why do you think Liam wasn't surprised or impressed (assuming things have been described accurately).

I said he didn't SAY anything. That doesn't mean he wasn't surprised. As to his behaviour, he mostly just seemed excited that he'd been called upon. The rest took a backseat, I think. But, keep in mind here, normal people get all tense when called upon by a celebrity type that they respect. The people he calls upon are trying very hard not to screw up and sound like an idiot in front of everyone.

Would anyone notice if the same person had gone to multiple JE shows and been 'identified' multiple times, playing the shill all along?

I guess what I'm saying is, does he have 'groupies' that follow him around from town to town, or is every audience mostly locals that would have no way of knowing if the same guy was at a show the last week?

The people I was sitting at the table with the first time I attended had been to several JE shows. Many people who stood and asked questions during the Q&A segment stated that they'd been to his shows before.

 

[ynot]

I'm just suggesting it as a possible scenario. There are people at casinos (I'm told) who can procure all sorts of illegal stuff for the right price. This would be easy, safe money.

Ward

Obviously such people wouldn’t sell their own illegal activities to the media. But given “everything is available in Vegas for a buck” why wouldn’t they sell information that an internationally known “psychic” is cheating to the media for more money than Edward would have paid them? They would have extra money to earn and nothing to lose.

 

[rjh01]

One thing that could be going on here is that John knows this Liam person. What would John do if he recognized someone he know? May I suggest he would do exactly what he did do. Maybe Liam has forgotten he ever met John.

The only thing I do not understand is why this person who spoke to you also was the one who was chosen for this freaky reading.

 

[RemieV]

This is getting muddied anyway. If the answer is that he's a plant, that doesn't help in any way whatsoever. If that's the conclusion, great, but there's no way to catch that. I'm looking to catch Edward in the act, and while the possibility of Liam being a plant exists, I suppose, that theory is distinctly unhelpful. So if you want to stick with it, that's cool and all, but I'm kinda hoping other people will jump in with other ideas that are actually potentially verifiable.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

The people I was sitting at the table with the first time I attended had been to several JE shows. Many people who stood and asked questions during the Q&A segment stated that they'd been to his shows before.

Aside from the question of why they would follow such a man with their wallets open time and time again, it stands to reason that they would notice a plant in my hypothetical scenario, then.

I've heard of some of these guys making audience members sign a non-disclosure agreement prior to being seated. Anything like that happen, just out of curiosity?

ETA: Just floating this one. Did you post here or anywhere else (FB) that you were going to be attending his show before you went?

 

[ynot]

I said he didn't SAY anything. That doesn't mean he wasn't surprised. As to his behaviour, he mostly just seemed excited that he'd been called upon. The rest took a backseat, I think. But, keep in mind here, normal people get all tense when called upon by a celebrity type that they respect. The people he calls upon are trying very hard not to screw up and sound like an idiot in front of everyone.

So do you think his actions and reactions were what you would have expected?

 

[RemieV]

Obviously such people wouldn’t sell their own illegal activities to the media. But given “everything is available in Vegas for a buck” why wouldn’t they sell information that an internationally known “psychic” is cheating to the media for more money than Edward would have paid them? They would have extra money to earn and nothing to lose.

Because the network you're talking about would have to be huge. If he's paying someone off to give him information, the more likely candidate would be the box office worker. Then you're only paying one person, and the information is precisely what you need. All you'd have to do at that point is plug the names into Facebook, and voila. You have everything you need.

The reason I find this unlikely still stands.

 

[ynot]

This is getting muddied anyway. If the answer is that he's a plant, that doesn't help in any way whatsoever. If that's the conclusion, great, but there's no way to catch that. I'm looking to catch Edward in the act, and while the possibility of Liam being a plant exists, I suppose, that theory is distinctly unhelpful. So if you want to stick with it, that's cool and all, but I'm kinda hoping other people will jump in with other ideas that are actually potentially verifiable.

Bug the green room

 

[RemieV]

Aside from the question of why they would follow such a man with their wallets open time and time again, it stands to reason that they would notice a plant in my hypothetical scenario, then.

I've heard of some of these guys making audience members sign a non-disclosure agreement prior to being seated. Anything like that happen, just out of curiosity?

ETA: Just floating this one. Did you post here or anywhere else (FB) that you were going to be attending his show before you went?

No. I didn't post it anywhere. I could count the number of people who knew on one hand, and they were all (at the time) JREF staff members.

I think the non-disclosure agreements are for the ones being recorded for television. There was no such agreement. I had also heard that security personnel check to make sure you don't have recording devices on you. They did not.

 

[Lolly]

that are actually potentially verifiable.

No. You'd have to get Liam and Edward under oath and examine them. Otherwise, look into Liam's background - where did he go to school, where has he practised his show-business act? You'd need to find how Edward knows him or about him. But eventually it would do you no good. "Believers" wouldn't care if you established the basis on which Edward got the information. You can tell them clear indisputable facts and they'll regurgitate whatever garbage they've chosen to believe.

 

[ynot]

Don’t you already know all the ways he could possibly cheat? Aren’t you looking for a method of exposing the cheating rather than the cheating method? I guess knowing exactly which cheating method is being use would be helpful but how will you ever know that without a smoking gun?

 

[JoeyDonuts]

OK, so if 'Liam' was a plant, and his chatting you up/getting called on were somehow connected, that would mean that John Edwards knows who you are, would have somehow known you were going to be there, and sent 'Liam' to chat you up to some end.

I'd also bet a John Edwards ticket that wasn't what happened.

I will say this, though - I find it somewhat unlikely that you're going to be able to see the 'man behind the curtain' by attending his shows and talking to people at them. Seems like he very tightly controls that environment, and your ability to perceive things is going to be limited to just what you can see, hear, and remember. He's had years to refine his 'craft' and he's still raking in money hand over fist, whereas others have fallen off or been exposed.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I don't think anything short of getting a job with John Edwards' staff will get you the information you're after - and I have a feeling that his interview process is probably more stringent than the screening for a TS clearance.

 

[couchsloth]

... While waiting to get into the show, I only spoke to one person. This man, who was around fifty five years old (I'm guessing) was named, let's say, Liam. ...

I could see him from where I was sitting if I turned around. I should add - I was attending the show under a false name, and I was costumed in such a way that I was not recognizable as me. I had a fake backstory that I responded with any time anyone asked me what brought me to the show...

He pointed toward the table behind me, where Liam was sitting, and said that he was getting the name 'Joshua'. I am again using a fake name of the same level of popularity. And I don't mean that he said he was getting a 'j' or the name 'Josh' or the feeling of a male presence. I mean that John Edward pointed at the table where Liam was sitting and said he was getting the name Joshua.

So Liam stood up. ...

This suggests to me that you were set up.
If JE was aware that you were visiting famous psychic's shows in disguise how hard would it be for him to train some of his staff to be looking for you (i.e. in disguise)?

 

[fromdownunder]

This is getting muddied anyway. If the answer is that he's a plant, that doesn't help in any way whatsoever. If that's the conclusion, great, but there's no way to catch that. I'm looking to catch Edward in the act, and while the possibility of Liam being a plant exists, I suppose, that theory is distinctly unhelpful. So if you want to stick with it, that's cool and all, but I'm kinda hoping other people will jump in with other ideas that are actually potentially verifiable.

Are you looking for a theory or a "gotcha" Edward! If you are looking for the latter, good luck with that. If you are looking for a potential theory, here is mine.

I believe you said earlier on the thread that "Fred" or whatever his name was has told you subsequent to the event that he did not talk to anybody about anything much except you. But apparently, standing next to you in a queue, a complete stranger, he had a somewhat extensive conversation, sbout an event where "expectations" of a paranormal event were about to occur.

Having been on plenty of holidays to plenty of places, and having had casual conversations with people I cannot possibly recall, how could you possibly know that he has not given information to an Edward plant, and that it was not a hot reading? And then even forgotten the discussion?

Norm